Side Oiler, Little Disapointing Dyno Numbers ?

[FUNFER2]

Found this ad. $12,500.

For sale is a 427 side-oiler with less than 1000 miles on rebuild. This originally came out of a 1969 mustang mach 1. The block has been bored .030 over with no sleeves. The block number is 2J29. Steel Crank that has been turned 10/10. Manley H beam rods. Keith Black Pistons that have been high temp coated. Custom grind Competition billet hydraulic roller camshaft. Gross lift is .540. Crane Cam roller lifters. Cloyes true double roller timing chain. Rebuilt 428 cobra jet heads with high temp coated valves (C80E-6090-N). Harland sharp roller rockers with rare sidewinder intake (C6AE9424J). This motor has been blueprinted and balanced.

On the dyno it put out 480 horsepower.

[CHANMADD]

A camshaft change would probably alter that. It has very little lift for an FE.

[Gaz64]

Originally Posted by CHANMADD

A camshaft change would probably alter that. It has very little lift for an FE.

I'd agree with that. 540 lift seems like like a baby cam, probably has nice street manners.

[DanEC]

He's pulling your leg if he's saying this engine originally came out of a 69 Mach 1 - the 427 engine was never put in the Mustang although the hydraulic lifter version made it into the Cougar. But assuming he's just a little history compromised the engine may be a good deal if it checks out.

[CHANMADD]

Yea ..but in all honesty.... 480 Hp at the wheels is over 500 and that is plenty in a Cobra.

[blykins]

With Cobra Jet heads, I would consider that maybe even a little on the optimistic side.

[Dimis]

See if you can negotiate on the price. 10k?
Ditch the heads and cam for something a little more free flowing... $5k?
Then On sell the cobra jet heads and cam. Some coin back.

Hopefully all in FE for sub $14?

Better than any small block.











Relax, just teasing about the small block.

[olddog]

Back in the day, the friend of a friend had a Mustang with a 427 in it. At least that was the story. It was claimed to have been special ordered and a long wait to get it. I know it had holes with rubber plugs in the inner fender wells so you could get to the spark plugs.

I agree that the heads are killing the power.

[dcdoug]

Originally Posted by CHANMADD

Yea ..but in all honesty.... 480 Hp at the wheels is over 500 and that is plenty in a Cobra.

I bet that's at the crank, not the wheels. Original side oilers back in the 60s ran similar numbers in stock configuration and this build and street cam seems to be similar to that.

[FUNFER2]

How is the old,...intake configuration vs todays aluminum intakes, for power ?
Pond, Edelbrock, Dove etc.

I'm sure Jay Brown has the stats on intakes, but my brain is to burnt to look them up.
(it is Jay Brown, right ?)

How much can be gained over the old but VERY cool,....sidewinder intake ?

The reason I like this motor is all of the rotating assembly has been changed to newer and stronger parts.

I know the original cranks and rods would be ok, but I'd prefer todays parts.

It's all balanced too. The big money would be new heads and valve train, even if the H S rockers would still be used.

Heads another $2,500-5,000

So even if he came down to $10,000, with a guess total of $13,00-$14,000 ain't bad for a original 427 side oiler block.

But is that statment really,.....a true 427 side oiler engine ?

It's like if you had a numbers matching original muscle car, but all parts except for the firewall with the vintag and the roof, were too far gone to use, so the fenders, floor, doors were replaced with new, is that car really original ?

I don't think so.

So, would this be a 427 side oiler ?
Not original, but the block and pump is what makes the "side oiler,".......right ?

[FUNFER2]

I couldn't load the photo's, so here's the link with pics. I'm not buying, just looking and learning

https://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/pts/6106120962.html

[dcdoug]

Originally Posted by FUNFER2

I couldn't load the photo's, so here's the link with pics. I'm not buying, just looking and learning

https://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/pts/6106120962.html

Since it's a ribbed block, doesn't that make is a service block or were their some production blocks that were ribbed too?

[lovehamr]

Originally Posted by FUNFER2

How much can be gained over the old but VERY cool,....sidewinder intake ?

In jays very well documented results, it turns out that the sidewider isn't all that great. Especially for a high HP engine. Even older Ebock and Holley single planes out perform it without losing low end grunt and are stupid cheap comparatively. Something like this with a nice gloss silver powder coat looks really nice.

[blykins]

I wouldn't really make any blanket statements about the Sidewinder intake....it actually does quite well.

Lykins Motorsports 427FE Build, Alan Carter

I do quite a few standard stroke 427 builds, some with aftermarket heads, some with factory heads.

Alan's 427 made 526 hp @ 6200 with 511 lb-ft of torque, with ported MR heads, a Sidewinder intake, and a small-ish hydraulic roller.

I did a 427 with some Pond heads a while back, a solid flat tappet, and a Performer RPM....it also made 525 hp.

The 480 hp estimate for the engine in the link is pretty close, if not a little optimistic. 428CJ heads, in stock form, flow about 240-250 cfm and will make about 425 hp on a 428 with a hydraulic roller and a factory CJ intake.

[moore_rb]

Originally Posted by DanEC

He's pulling your leg if he's saying this engine originally came out of a 69 Mach 1 - the 427 engine was never put in the Mustang although the hydraulic lifter version made it into the Cougar. But assuming he's just a little history compromised the engine may be a good deal if it checks out.

Originally Posted by dcdoug

Since it's a ribbed block, doesn't that make is a service block or were their some production blocks that were ribbed too?

From my research, the ribbed block means that there is no way this block was ever used in an OEM 427 side-oiler installation. From what I read, the last OEM 427 side-oiler blocks were cast in 1964 (without ribs), and were installed in 1967 model year cars; while the ribbed FE service blocks did not come out until the early 70's...

Now, even with the service block, this engine might still be machined and built to a cross bolted main configuration (I've read that some service blocks did have the provisions for the cross bolts), but this engine block never lived in an original 1960's 427 equipped vehicle. No way.

I know all this because I talked to the seller of this engine on the phone many months ago, and then did some homework

This ad (or other ads for the same engine) have been up in the Arizona Craigslist for several months. The seller wants to sell it as-is, for big cash, without putting it on a run stand so the buyer can hear it run. The seller was also suspiciously not forthcoming about why the engine was removed from the car after only 1000 miles...

It's a mystery-motor, that he's asking pro engine builder money for....

The only way you would know if this engine was any good would be to manually compression test it (cranking it by hand), and then remove all the bearing caps and plasti-gage all the bearings for tolerance, then spin the oil pump with a powerful drill to make sure it makes oil pressure, and then pray that you don't have a spun cam bearing, cracked water jacket, or collapsed lifter inside there.

(or, you could ask the seller if he would be willing to let you install it in a car before you paid him for it, but that proposal didn't work when I tried it , haha)

I suggested to the guy he should probably put it on a run stand if he expects to sell it for that kind of cash, but it seems my advice was not heeded...

[blykins]

There were indeed service replacement 427 side oiler blocks. I've seen more than my share. They have the ribs. They have the cross bolts. They have the side oil galley "bulge" and they have the front galley plug on the driver's side of the timing cover.

No, they weren't in 60's OEM vehicles, but they were legit, and were just offered over the counter as replacements. (You could also get Boss 302 service replacement blocks, after the 69/70 Boss 302 Mustangs were made....)

[dcdoug]

Originally Posted by blykins

There were indeed service replacement 427 side oiler blocks. I've seen more than my share. They have the ribs. They have the cross bolts. They have the side oil galley "bulge" and they have the front galley plug on the driver's side of the timing cover.

No, they weren't in 60's OEM vehicles, but they were legit, and were just offered over the counter as replacements. (You could also get Boss 302 service replacement blocks, after the 69/70 Boss 302 Mustangs were made....)

Exactly what I have - a '72 service block side oiler.

[Gaz64]

Originally Posted by dcdoug

I bet that's at the crank, not the wheels. Original side oilers back in the 60s ran similar numbers in stock configuration and this build and street cam seems to be similar to that.

Yes that would be correct, flywheel horsepower.

I don't think anybody could advertise an engine at rear wheel horsepower when there's no driveline behind it.

[FUNFER2]

Brent, what would you do with this motor, from leave it, little changes, mild part changes to pretty radical changes, and why ?

With each of the four, what would be the apx increases in HP &TQ ?

[Dimis]

Originally Posted by FUNFER2

Brent, what would you do with this motor, from leave it, little changes, mild part changes to pretty radical changes, and why ?

With each of the four, what would be the apx increases in HP &TQ ?

I'm not Brent but I'll give you my 2 bitcoins, knowing what I know about your preferences.

1. Pond or BBM heads. Whatever I could get my hands on.
2. Dual plane Blue thunder intake.
3. Lightest possible flywheel I could find.

Cammed with The goal being to be able to produce as much tq as I could for as long as I could on the curve starting from around 2300rpm.

It would probably not give me the highest HP Possible but it would give me the hardest and most instant kick in the pants when I pushed the go pedal.

Great for some rear wheel steering at will