Side Oiler, Little Disapointing Dyno Numbers ?

[moore_rb]

Originally Posted by blykins

There were indeed service replacement 427 side oiler blocks. I've seen more than my share. They have the ribs. They have the cross bolts. They have the side oil galley "bulge" and they have the front galley plug on the driver's side of the timing cover.

I never said they didn't make side oiler service blocks. All I said was that the engine in this ad is using a service block- I think we all agree on that.

Therefore, it did not "originally come out of" any Ford car like the seller claims. It came out of the casting foundry as a replacement part.

The 2J29 # cast into the block denotes a 1972/Sept 29th date code.

Maybe Ford took this 1972 service engine, and teleported it 3 years backward in time, and installed it in the only 1969 Mach One Mustang that ever left the factory with a 427 SO engine in it...???

you can see the cross bolts in his pictures, but you can't really see the oil galley bulge on the driver's side, it's blocked by the plug wires. maybe the bulge is there, and maybe this really is a side-oiler... If it is a SO, is it worth 12 grand with those less than awesome CJ heads on it? (I'm asking honestly - I have no idea)

However, I'd send you or Craft 12 grand toward a 14k custom built and warranteed FE, before I'd buy this (non running) mystery engine out of some guy's garage... Like I said, I spoke to this dude on the phone several months back, and I just got a weird vibe from him.

[blykins]

I agree, it didn't come in any 1969 Mustang...

But it does appear to be a side oiler as I can see a plug on the end of the main galley to the right of the timing cover.

[BAsque1]

Originally Posted by CHANMADD

Yea ..but in all honesty.... 480 Hp at the wheels is over 500 and that is plenty in a Cobra.

More than plenty, I can attest to that!!!

[Shootnride]

Originally Posted by moore_rb

From what I read, the last OEM 427 side-oiler blocks were cast in 1964 (without ribs), and were installed in 1967 model year cars; while the ribbed FE service blocks did not come out until the early 70's...

Mine has no ribs and a 1968 casting date.

Ted

[csx4017]

Have you checked this site?
Ford FE Engine Block Casting Numbers - FORDification.com

[undy]

Was the block sonic checked? Sometimes a 0.030" overbore is too much. IMO, I wouldn't pay 1/2 of what the guy's asking.

[FUNFER2]

There's a lot of replys to get to, but I'm busy for a while and will get to you all as time permits.

Is there anything bad with a service block ?
What are the differences ?
Which is preferd and why ?

[FUNFER2]

I'll mention again, I'm not buying, just looking and learning.

Bench top discussion guys.

[FUNFER2]

Originally Posted by csx4017

Have you checked this site?
Ford FE Engine Block Casting Numbers - FORDification.com

Can you (and others) explain the side oilers differences and and why ? (not the other FE's listed)

Marine
C7AE-J '68 427 c.i.d. Irrigation
C7JE-A '67 427 c.i.d. Marine
C7JE-E '67 427 c.i.d. Industrial Engine
C7ME '?? 359, 361, 389, & 391 c.i.d.
'?? 330HD c.i.d. Heavy Duty Truck
C7ME-A '?? 330MD c.i.d. Medium Duty Truck
'67-'70 428 c.i.d. 428-4V, Police Interceptor, Cobra Jet

[moore_rb]

Originally Posted by FUNFER2

Can you (and others) explain the side oilers differences and and why ? (not the other FE's listed)

FE's come in 2 flavors- side oilers, and top oilers.

At a glance, I think that all the casting numbers you listed are top oilers.

Side oilers pump oil first to the bottom end of the engine, and then push it up to the top end. Top oiler FE's push the oil up into the top part of the engine first. that's the essential difference.

Side oilers were designed for racing, where long periods of high-RPM operation required fresh oil in the main and rod bearings, in order to keep them well lubricated.

One of the other benefits of the first/earliest side-oilers were the beefier main bearing caps, with the extra bolts that came in from the side of the engine. (some guys see these side bolts on an FE engine, and immediately assume it's a side oiler, but you can find top-oilers that also have the cross-bolted mains).

In other words, all side-oilers use cross bolted mains, but not all cross-bolted FE's are side-oilers

Original, Ford-supplied side oiler blocks are much more rare than top-oilers, and they are getting rarer by the year (this is why they are usually much more expensive than top-oiler blocks)

for a street engine, the side oiler design would still be considered superior (from a lubrication standpoint) for building a long-lasting, and reliable engine (if money was no object, and if you happened to luck out and find a side oiler block that had never been over-bored).

But 99% of street-driven, original casting FE's out there (even heavily hot-rodded ones) are top-oilers.

Visually, Blykins already clued you in above on how to tell the difference: side oilers have a bulge/rib that runs along the driver's side of the block (where the oil flows from the oil pump, to the main bearings), and there is a screw-in plug on the timing cover, at about 5 o'clock.

All the other talk in this thread about "ribs versus no ribs" is about blocks that were originally installed in cars at the factory (no ribs), or "service blocks", which were cast to be used as replacements for damaged engines -

Early service FE blocks (pre-1970) had no ribs, while later service FE blocks (about mid 71-onward) did have ribs. (The ribs are purely visual, and would really only be important to guys who are restoring a car and want it to look "factory correct" )

For some average Joe who who just wants a strong, well built engine, a ribbed service block might be a great start, because the later ribbed blocks should have all the benefits of better foundry techniques, and tighter process control...

That's the VERY "high level" overview.... The conversation will go in 50 different directions when guys start talking about all the merits and demerits of specific casting number series... (at which point my ADD sets in, and I just wander off, looking for guys who want to argue about Ford versus Chevy, versus Mopar...)

[FUNFER2]

I'll get back to you Robert, but this first.

I emailed the guy about the side oiler, and this is my email to him.

"Date: Thu, Jun 8, 2017 2:30 PM

To: tdfrq-6106154240@sale.craigslist.org;

Subject:Ford Fe 427 Side-oiler


Ford never put a side oiler in a 69' Mustang. It's up to you if you want that in your ad, but it's steering people away, as either being naive or trying to sell something that it's not.*


Regards,

Kevin

http://prescott.craigslist.org/pts/6106154240.html "

His reply-

First of all it is a true side-oiler. I can send you pictures to prove it. Second when I bought the motor it came out of the mustang. That's why there are cobra jet heads on it so he could still use his exhaust. Third any ford person would know that they didn't come from factory in a 69 mustang. Use some common sense before sending a stupid email. Thank you.*

My reply-

I did not,.....say that it's not a side oiler, just that they did not come in the 69' Mustang.*


The way you wrote your ad, you make sound like it came fromthe factory in this Mustang !


*If a person does not know the history of these engines, they may beleive you.


So, re-write your ad without,.....saying it came out of a 69' Mustang !

If you don't, then you're a crook.*


Call me what you want, at least I'm honest.*


Good luck.*

Then a final reply after checking his ad-

Ok, this is exactly, what you wrote.

"This originally,.... came out of a 1969 mustang mach 1"*

I would say,.....you're BUSTED !

Anyway, what a jerk.....

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by FUNFER2

I would say,.....you're BUSTED !

Anyway, what a jerk.....

But since you have no intention whatsoever of buying it anyway, you probably should just let him do what he wants. I don't think he appreciates your kindly advice.

[olddog]

I don't remember correctly a great many things. That said, I think I recall that the service blocks from the 70's were drilled for hydraulic lifters. Most of the original factory cars with side oilers were mechanical lifters only and relied on oil splashing up from the crank. Now that might should be "all" or "many" instead of "most." I am certain that the older high performance FE engines had no juice holes for hydraulic lifters and at least some of the newer service blocks did.

Hopefully someone can set this record straight, for me.

I do know that my personal preference would be hydraulic roller lifters regardless what engine I was building. Plenty of people would disagree. Patrick would. He has a love of solid lifter old school cams. I have to admit I too love the sound. I just never loved adjusting them, and when a hydraulic roller gives better power for my rpm range, there is no point, from my perspective. I never liked reving a big inch engine that I had a ton of money in.

[FUNFER2]

Originally Posted by patrickt

But since you have no intention whatsoever of buying it anyway, you probably should just let him do what he wants. I don't think he appreciates your kindly advice.

I don't agree buddy. What would you say if someone here bought that engine, (maybe even a friend of yours) only to find out that there's something wrong with it. Then he found this thread, and said, I wish I had seen this before buying, the guy is a crook !

I see he has two ad's on craigslist for it too.

If I can steer away anyone away from this seller, I'd feel good Patrick.

So do I care that he may appreciate my kindly advice, hell no. lol...

He got busted !

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by FUNFER2

I don't agree buddy.

Fine. You haven't listened to a lick of our advice up until now, so I doubt you'll ever start....

[moore_rb]

Originally Posted by FUNFER2

I emailed the guy about the side oiler....

Anyway, what a jerk.....

I told you that guy was shady... You didn't believe me???

No biggie- Someday he'll figure out that the only people out there who would be interested in his engine are going to want to see/hear it run before they make him an honest offer...

Or, he'll sell it to some schmuck who has more money than brains...

[FUNFER2]

If you mean Patrick,....I agree, he's always been a shady guy and pissy.
Ah, gotta love Patrick.

If any,....engine is too far away to listen too and check it all out, then I won't buy it.

[FUNFER2]

This guys ad is deceiving. It's actually a 390 FE block, but 428cid.


His ad-

FORD 428 COBRA JET FE - $6900

428 COBRA JET

For sale is a fresh rebuilt Ford 428 FE. This engine is ready to drop in to your old ford muscle car. It has been updated with some modern parts and should make more power than a factory 428CJ.

This 428 started with a C6ME-A Ford block that was magnafluxed and bored to 4.130. The block was also line honed and surfaced.
The rotating assembly is a new scat 3.98 inch stroke Scat crank(stock stroke) with reconditioned Ford Cobra Jet C7AE-B connecting rods and Sealed Power 354p pistons. This is all neutrally balanced and blueprinted. It comes with the balancer and flexplate. The compression ratio is just above 10:1 and should work great with 91 octane pump gas. The top end Consists of C7AE-A 14 bolt GT Cylinder heads. The heads have been surfaced and hardened exhaust seats were installed. They have also been updated with new comp cams springs and retainers. A set of police interceptor rocker arms and new sealed power push rods were used. The engine is finished off with a custom Cam Motion hydraulic flat tappet cam (slightly larger than a stock CJ), comp cams lifters, a double roller timing chain, and an Edelbrock performer intake.

All high quality parts were used in this build, some parts not listed above include Felpro gaskets, Hastings rings, Clevite bearings, Milodon oil pan, etc.....

This engine block started life as a 390. IT IS NOT an original Cobra Jet block. This casting number could have been used for a 360, 390, 410, or 428 from the factory. Because of this it is a block that has enough material to turn into a 428 and is regularly used to make 428ci FE engines.

I built this engine for an old ford truck project I was doing and plans have changed. I sold the truck and now I need to sell the engine. Please call or text with any questions.

I do not need help selling this and I do not take payments.

[olddog]

I don't see anything wrong with the add. There were some 390 blocks that were cast thick enough to bore that far, and I have read that Ford did overbore 390 blocks to the 428 bore. This fact was disclosed. It is a 428.

I would want to know how thick the walls were. He should have the results of a sonic test done before boring.

[FUNFER2]

I don't think so, as he stated,...."This engine block started life as a 390"