Pond, BBM, Genesis, Shelby. Quality, Machining and Final Cost ?

[FUNFER2]

When you engine builders see and machine the BBM, Shelby FE, Pond and Genesis, which one comes in 1st place in quality, needed machining and final cost to a customer ?

Any differences between the aluminum's and iron's in quality, machining and final cost's ?

If fact, 1st to 4th place ranking and prices would be great.

I'm sure others would find your information very interesting and helpful.

Please give details.

[blykins]

They all need everything.

Genesis hasn't been in business for years.

You can count on $750-1000 of pressure testing, setting sleeves if it's aluminum, and full machine work.

I hate aluminum FE blocks and won't build another one....

How soon are you looking to start? Are you ready to buy an engine right now?

[cobra]

Hi Kevin
Ask George Anderson from Gessford ( Gessford Machine | Where our machining experience helps you! ) and you are in the best hands.
My Shelby engine is now 14 years old and runs like on the first day.
Good luck and many greetings
Walter

[ACHiPo]

I've heard similar things to Brent's comments on the Al blocks--the estimates I've gotten are that Al blocks cost ~$3k - $5k more to machine and build than a cast iron block. I've heard nothing but good things about the BBM blocks. I haven't started building mine up yet, so I can't say for sure how much (or little) machining it will take, but I'm guessing Brent's pretty much on the money--square the deck, pressure plate hone, etc.

[blykins]

Doesn't matter which aftermarket block it is, BBM, SOG, Pond, Shelby, or even the SBF aftermarket blocks....they all need the same treatment if you want it perfect.

[Barry_R]

I will back up Brent's comments 100%

I am still building them - - but its with some reservations

Every one of them needs work.

Every one of them.

[FUNFER2]

Hi Brent, why do you hatr aluminum FE blocks ?

Right now, I'm researrching what I want and my needs. I hate buying/building anything,.....too quickly, so I research,.... everything. It's a love hatef of type thing, especially if
my decision turns out to be wrong.

I'm going back and forth between an 428FE, 427 side oiler, 390FE Or, becare of lower cost and HP/TQ, with the 460, boring and stroking it to 514 (+).

My Cobra is set up for a 428FE, with motor mounts, brand new flywheel, bellhousing and new clutch.

The possible problems with changing to the 385 series is,

trading or selling the FE parts above, is the width and height of a 460 going to be a issue, maybe making a new higher hood scoop wich means body work and respraying the entire hood and matching the pearl in my white stripes. All of that is not a problem, as I'm a retired autobody/painter, but the cost of the paint is expensive even with me doing the work.

The problems with staying with an FE is,

The total cost is very high.

Finding a old 428 block in good condition, or a newly casted block,
the cost of either is expensive.

Lack of high HP/TQ with the older FE vs cost. $15,000 to $18,000. I,m wanting 600 HP @ the crank. The 460 is easy 600, the FE ,...not, plus extreme cost of an FE at that HP.

I'm looking at aluminum and iron blocks. So give me your thoughts of both.

When I do get the funds, my wife/boss says around $13,000, but if needed, we'll see about more. I also need a tranny. .

I lost $10,000 in the last build as my engine builder went belly up thus steeling my money and parts. Long story,.....(I think Brent knows my story)

I'm having trouble on Barry's site of the cost of complete engines and short blocks ?
Same issue on George's website ?

[cycleguy55]

Originally Posted by FUNFER2

Hi Brent, why do you hate aluminum FE blocks?

Browsing the forums (e.g. FE Talk) and/or use of the search tool on CC would save others from covering ground already well covered. Regardless, Brent's thoughts and comments are in this multi-page thread - worth reading for anyone contemplating such a decision: What's the appeal of an aluminum engine block?

Originally Posted by FUNFER2

Right now, I'm researrching what I want and my needs. I hate buying/building anything,.....too quickly, so I research,.... everything. It's a love hatef of type thing, especially if
my decision turns out to be wrong.

I have no problem with research, but it appears our definitions are markedly different. My perspective is that research involves far more effort on my part to search, read and discover that information which is already available. I'll ask questions subsequent to that if it's not available, or if there are ambiguities which I can't resolve on my own - after attempting 'best efforts' to do so. Research, IMO, is not dumping every possible question I have to others to answer. There is a cost to answers and, while that may not always be visible, it requires an investment of time, energy and sometimes money to respond. Should Brent be spending time answering your questions when that takes time away from his business? I respect his decisions to limit such time, as I respect those of others.

Originally Posted by FUNFER2

I'm going back and forth between an 428FE, 427 side oiler, 390FE Or, becare of lower cost and HP/TQ, with the 460, boring and stroking it to 514 (+).

My Cobra is set up for a 428FE, with motor mounts, brand new flywheel, bellhousing and new clutch.

The possible problems with changing to the 385 series is,

trading or selling the FE parts above, is the width and height of a 460 going to be a issue, maybe making a new higher hood scoop wich means body work and respraying the entire hood and matching the pearl in my white stripes. All of that is not a problem, as I'm a retired autobody/painter, but the cost of the paint is expensive even with me doing the work.

The problems with staying with an FE is,

The total cost is very high.

Finding a old 428 block in good condition, or a newly casted [SIC] block, the cost of either is expensive.

Lack of high HP/TQ with the older FE vs cost. $15,000 to $18,000. I,m wanting 600 HP @ the crank. The 460 is easy 600, the FE ,...not, plus extreme cost of an FE at that HP.

I'm looking at aluminum and iron blocks. So give me your thoughts of both.

Document in detail all the elements of each solution, all the pluses and minuses, financial or otherwise, logical and emotional, then run them through some form of analysis (e.g. a spreadsheet) - and it's highly likely your decision will be easier and quicker. For example, if you place high value on bragging rights about RWHP, then assign a value to it. If having an FE and being more 'period correct' is more important to you, then assign a value to that. This is your decision and nobody can make it for you.

Originally Posted by FUNFER2

When I do get the funds, my wife/boss says around $13,000, but if needed, we'll see about more. I also need a tranny.

Funding this endeavour is your business / challenge - few of us escape that conundrum.

BTW, what do transvestites have to do with this? LOL

Originally Posted by FUNFER2

I lost $10,000 in the last build as my engine builder went belly up thus steeling my money and parts. Long story,.....(I think Brent knows my story)

That's a 'sunk cost' - though there may be value in the lessons learned.

Originally Posted by FUNFER2

I'm having trouble on Barry's site of the cost of complete engines and short blocks ?
Same issue on George's website ?

Pick up the phone.

[FUNFER2]

Originally Posted by Barry_R

I will back up Brent's comments 100%

I am still building them - - but its with some reservations

Every one of them needs work.

Every one of them.

Hi Barry,
What is the problems with the aluminum blocks ?

[FUNFER2]

Brian, some good points.

Remember though, people that are sick of reading and responding to the same questions, need not to respond, and that of course means Brent and several others I have a learning disability, so it's a lot easier for me to gain knowlege by looking here on CC.

If members only surf in the search box for answers to their questions, CC has been established for many years now with who knows, how many discussions/questions/answers about the same issues there neednt be any discusions or questions at all. So what, just look it up your self and
that's it ?

Do you and the few others want CC to be just a data base/Library ?

Maybe that's what the complainers should start up.

Again, we're not making,...... people reply. It's not "Click it or Ticket" here people, just don't click on the reply tab.

[FUNFER2]

Brian,

Did you have any problems in getting that BIG 460 into you west coast cobra ?
Someone also mentioned how large the width is. One even had to dimple a valve cover bacause it hit his firewall.

What's the specs with yours ?
Did you build or buy it ?
Has it been dynoed ?

Anything you'd do different or want to add ?

[66gtk]

Your budget and power needs are going to be limiting within the FE family. If you go with a 460 and want fuel injection I'm removing a complete and working FI from my 460 Cobra this month. It will all be available for sale if you want a complete kit/solution. Coming out of an SPF car.

[FUNFER2]

Sadly, the FE's are expensive, even more than when we built my original 428FE back in 2002.
The problm is, with a 460 I'll need to sell the brand new FE products I have, steel bellhousing, flywheel and dual clutch, and possibly having to make a new taller, hood scoop.

I'm excited of the low end torque and the top end HP with the 460.

Please either post here or send me details, photo's and price of your 360.

Is the 385 series block stronger than the 428FE ?
Better all around engine ?

I know nothing about the 385, just learning.

Maybe a nutty question, but has Ford or aftermarket companys have a aluminum 460 block ?

What's the weight difference between the 428FE and the 460 ?

[Large Arbor]

I have a Shelby aluminum block and love it. Joe Lapine of Danbury racing engines built it.

Other than minor issues, I have no complaints with the aluminum engines. Joe Lapine indicated to me a few years ago he preferred Shelby blocks because they had less machining then others. I cannot confirm or deny that, it's just what he said.

Phil

[66gtk]

My 521 is indeed a full aluminum block. It wasn't cheap...12 years ago it was still around $6k I'm told. Check with C&C Motorsports. They offer an aluminum 429 now.

[FUNFER2]

Yes, the Shelby is very expensive. I've wondered why he did not create the FE as a side oiler ?
I and many others would have seeked out for that engine, even just for the
name "side oiler" ! Lol

The C&C Motorsports Boss 429 is $6,200.

I'll say again, if I had the funds, I woukd buy the BBM side oiler block and their heads. Work of art !

Phil, I'll look up Joe. Does he work for,...http://www.bluethunderauto.com

Would any of you buy a used engine, if it was a real nice price ?

I'm still looking at Craft's 428FE, but for the price and power, his 460.

[FUNFER2]

Here a used Dove 4 bolt 460 block for sale.

$1,500

F/S D0VE-A 4 bolt main block - 460 Ford Forum

[FUNFER2]

Originally Posted by 66gtk

Your budget and power needs are going to be limiting within the FE family. If you go with a 460 and want fuel injection I'm removing a complete and working FI from my 460 Cobra this month. It will all be available for sale if you want a complete kit/solution. Coming out of an SPF car.

Please send me some photo's and information.

[2bars]

Do all these alloy blocks wind up coming from the same foundry? Thus giving the builders the same basic problems. I can well imagine that they get made in the same place for different companies.

I have one coming from Pond. My old iron 428 had to retire (failed sonic) and I wanted new parts.

[blykins]

No, they don't, and that's part of the problem.

In comparison to other engine families, the FE really has the short straw.

If the blocks were cast by Dart, Edelbrock, World, etc., I would have more confidence in them, but foundries are seeing runs of 100 FE blocks at a time and the dedication/QC just isn't there.

All of the major FE block manufacturers switched foundries last year. That should tell you something.