Starting over in so many ways

[hi-tech cobra]

Roger that blykins. If I did go with the Trick Flow's, what about the valve size? Doesn't the 390 use smaller valves to accommodate the bore?

[blykins]

TFS heads work perfectly fine on a 390 bore (and smaller).

What heads do you have now?

[hi-tech cobra]

Originally Posted by blykins

TFS heads work perfectly fine on a 390 bore (and smaller).

What heads do you have now?

The old 390 heads.
Will the Trick Flow heads work well on a 427?
Are these the heads you recommend?
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/t...-c00?rrec=true

[Grubby]

Brent sells them. He will give you good advice with a purchase.

John

[blykins]

I have been trying to post on this stupid forsaken website for literally 3 hours. When I would try to log in, it would immediately tell me my password was incorrect, I had used up all my tries, and I’d have to wait 15 minutes.

Anyway....

The Trick Flows will work for basically any size FE you can come up with.

That part number is correct for a flat tappet. I can beat Summits pricing and give you a lot better tech support than any of those yahoos can give you.

I’d still like to know which heads you have. I know you said 390 heads, but which ones? What’s the cast number? Without knowing what you have, you could have CJ heads or anything and it may be more worthwhile to save your money.

[tomshep]

That one port looks like it had water sitting in it. Due to that I would pull the heads and pan. Gaskets are cheap and lets you see the condition of the motor. If all looked good clean and put back together. If you pull the rod caps and mains and find a bad bearing you will be glad you took the time and were willing to spend the money instead of going through the work of putting a bad motor in the car and possibly doing a lot more damage.

Tom

[hi-tech cobra]

Looking at a different path. Stroking the 390 to 445, trick flow or Edey heads.
Goal of 500+ HP and call it a day. And not do the KC482 Pond.
Thoughts?
Btw, every time I had a min to post it would say I had the wrong password and wait 15 mins. I know the password is correct. Can someone fix this?

Originally Posted by blykins

I have been trying to post on this stupid forsaken website for literally 3 hours. When I would try to log in, it would immediately tell me my password was incorrect, I had used up all my tries, and I’d have to wait 15 minutes.

Anyway....

The Trick Flows will work for basically any size FE you can come up with.

That part number is correct for a flat tappet. I can beat Summits pricing and give you a lot better tech support than any of those yahoos can give you.

I’d still like to know which heads you have. I know you said 390 heads, but which ones? What’s the cast number? Without knowing what you have, you could have CJ heads or anything and it may be more worthwhile to save your money.

[blykins]

Annoying isn’t it?

The 445 isn’t a bad plan. I can make 550 hp and 580 torque with a 445 and TFS heads.

TFS is the way to go, Edelbrocks aren’t in the same ballpark, even when they’re ported.

[hi-tech cobra]

Can you pm me about parts?

[blykins]

Email is best. It may take me a half day to login to CC next time.

brent@lykinsmotorsports.com

[olddog]

Suggest never logging out, if it is your desk top or lap top.

[olddog]

Oh yea. I almost forgot. The 390 / 445 is a good build. The aluminum block monster FEs are a lot of money and a lot of things that need done right. And you can still have issues. They are wonderful when it all works out, but they are for rich men to gamble with, in my opinion.

[hi-tech cobra]

If I go the stroker route, which one Eagle or Scat? Is Summitt or Jegs the best bet?

[olddog]

Originally Posted by hi-tech cobra

If I go the stroker route, which one Eagle or Scat? Is Summitt or Jegs the best bet?

One of those two named has had a lot of breakage issues in the past. Do some searches. Blykins can most likely supply you with at least as good a price, plus he would be a good person to take care of any machining and balancing that may need done. Also he knows which suppliers to trust or not to trust.

[blykins]

Eagle FE cranks have a high failure rate.

At the risk of seeming needy (I'm not), there are other places to buy parts than Summit or Jegs. Where do you think engine builders buy their parts from? I can most likely beat anyone's pricing on anything and have actually had my hands on a few FE's......call Jegs up and ask the guy that answers the phone how many FE's he's built.

Again, feel free to email me or call me.

[maui]

There's some variation on 390s so knowing what you really have is the first riddle you need to solve. Is it a factory 4v?

If the engine is on a stand its certainly not unreasonable to pull the pan and take a peak. As mentioned before gaskets are cheap. What you don't want to find is a set of bearings that look like a hundred year old man running a marathon. Also a new oil pump shouldn't break the bank but as mentioned, once you start down that road its a bit of a rabbit hole. Even a stock oil pump is pretty easy to clean up though. Look at the bottom plate, you can hand lap it on a flat surface, the wife's marble kitchen counter tops are pretty good for this. You'd also feel pretty stupid to find out after that fact that the pick up was partially blocked or just really dirty. That alone is all but guaranteed by the looks of what you have. It is completely possible to freshen up the bottom end on a budget though. At a minimum, avoid a significant loss. I can mail you an old cam I have, it would come in about 5 different boxes and might have bits of connecting rod impregnated...

As far as heads go, lots of good advice here. Clearly blykins has lots of experience. While bigger valves don't always make more power, it's a good bet in this case the TFS heads would be a real improvement. Pay attention to the oil drain back.

Aluminum heads tend to run a little cooler, and can be more forgiving on detonation. They're a lot lighter, always good. They are shiny and have a better smile to mile ratio and will serve you a well as long as you don't grenade the engine too badly. Again, rabbit hole warning, you're not going to feel really great installing aluminum heads and not getting a new intake manifold, and a cam, and new rockers, and a new distributor, and a new double roller, and you might as well go roller lifters with the new cam, and a new carb, and wing nuts...

One thing to consider is installing TFS heads on a stock engine, which is fine, is that those old rings are gonna get a little more work than before. More heat, more pressure. They may (will) start to show their age. Throwing more power at a stock bottom end in my experience has much of the time lead to more issues.

But if you don't mind running a smoker, keep an eye on the plugs, replace them a bit more often, you may need to run a hotter plug which can lead to other problems, you can hedge a little by backing off the timing 2º or so. Its a tough thing to throw a power adder like a TFS head on then detune, one step forward, two steps back etc..(the one step forward being much bigger in this case)

The TFS heads will probably out last the bottom end. Those heads you posted pictures of at a minimum should get cleaned up. Looks like enough crap in there to potentially get into the rings. You just don't know. Again, it's already on the stand. You could hang a valve and really be disappointed later. A 3 angle valve job is a very decent performance gain and any basic shop can do this. Take a clean up pass on the head surface and call it macaroni. Yes you're going to lose a week or so depending on how much time you put into it.

390's are can be good engines. Bone stock it could be a good driver. Depending on how well worn the engine is....when in doubt a 250 shot of nitrous oxide is a good way to find the weak link. It comes under the heading "watch this"....it won't fix things but it will end the suspense.

[Michael C Henry]

I've been having the same problem for the last two week logging on to this web site. I have a whole page in a binder of all the passwords that didn't work and then I'd get one to work and next time it wouldn't. It's working now.
Any way the average 390 was made to do 335 HP they did have a 401 HP in 61 I'd bet you don't have one. The oiling system is a problem with high revs, it will never be a 427 side oiler. You can make it better but never get to the side oiler level You can over bore 0.075" and call it a 406. but the quality of crank and rods will determine how far to push it. Remember this is a crutch engine. Build it right and you may have something to sell of value when you're done What are you doing for cam and lifters? There are a ton of point you can alter and there are some I'd intrust to a machinist. Above all I d go with a Melling high volume oil pump. get the truck pump and the step down hex drive and do not add the optional shim the truck pump is 5/16" hex the car pump is 1/4" hex. The input in the pump tends to ware the most. As a heavy equip mechanic I spent a bunch over the years getting by with what I could afford trying to make it better.

[blykins]

The oiling system is not an issue with a 390 or 428. Lots of 390's and 428's in Super Stock NHRA turning over 8000 rpm. My own 390 dyno mule made many pulls at 7500 with a hydraulic roller cam... Like anything else, you just have to know the "fixes". Even a 427 S/O won't live at higher rpm without different things being addressed.

People seem to really underestimate what a 390 will do. They will *easily* make over 500 hp with the correct combination and will do it in a way that you can drive it on the street/highway all day long.

I built a 390 a few years ago with a hydraulic roller camshaft, Trick Flow heads, Performer RPM intake, and 10:1 compression. It made 540 hp on the dyno here and powers this '66 Galaxie station wagon. The owner drives it everywhere and drag races it when there's an event to go to.





My 445's with TFS heads make 540-550 hp and 590 lb-ft of torque. That's also with a 390 block.

[Michael C Henry]

I doubt that those NHRA engines were as they came out of the factory. I'd bet they were altered a bunch. My observations are the oil filter hanger drilled out to larger size hole and the oil holes in the block would b drilled larger and the edge chamfered where misalignments occurred like where the hanger and block mounting surface using the gasket as a template. Anything you can do to flow more oil to the bearings by reducing any restrictions I once was considering the two filter adapter in with the filters in parille. don't for get to replace the soft plugs with pipe plugs in the block galleries. If something happens you'll have regrets later if it turned out that you could have prevented that failure. 53 years ago I twisted a 406 to around 8400 RPMs, scorched a bearing and blew the side out of the block the next day

[blykins]

One of the issues is the factory rods. When you have to hone them out of round, there's a lot for want there.....

Now we have modern rods and modern oil pans, and the issues are not really issues anymore.

Even the 427's were not immune to issues and there aren't many out there that are raced "as stock", and as a matter of fact, there are oiling modifications that have to be done to brand spankin' new aftermarket blocks from BBM, Pond, Shelby, etc.

Unless someone is craving the magic "427" number, there's literally zero reasons you should have to bypass a 390 to build an engine. I can make 100 hp more with a 390 than any 427 made from the mid 60's. You can literally have a 390 block that has been prepped/machined sitting in your lap for $1000 and with the right parts make well over 500 hp.