Sideoiler with Tunnel Ports!

[Turk]

I'm about to embark on building a new 427 SO with Tunnel Port Heads. I have read the pros and cons, about streetablity of such an engine. I realize it would do better at higher RPMs on the track than it would on the street.

Let's assume that I am bent on doing this, because I do have the block and the crank and the intake(s).

I am willing to listen (for a change) to others who had experience with this engine in a Cobra.
427 crank or 428. Stroked or not? 10,11,12,13 to 1 compression? Cam specs, carburation etc.

I do realize I am nt being practical, and my intent is to have a car that can be driven (with some diffiulty) and idles somewhat without shaking every nut and bolt loose. The bragging rights of a TP engine is probably what motivates me rather than the practicality of one.

I currently have 427 Sideoiler, LR, with dual Holleys. I would like for this to be heads and shoulders above that one, in peformance.

I am getting ready to sit down with a well respected engine builder for this project. I tought tapping into the experience of others in here couldn't hurt.

Yes, I know, it is more than I need, what is the point? and all that. let's assume I am stubborn enough to do it, what is the best way to do is is what I am after.

Please make your suggestions without any regard to raining on my parade. 600HP is the target without Nitrous.

I have every manifold made for this engine, which one should I use?

Thanks.

TURK

[Aussie Mike]

It looks like you're determined to "open up a can of whup @ss" on Evan's Cobra in the upcoming DVSF battle of the titans

[kountzecobra]

A good man to talk with is Frank Bowers in Wister,Oklahoma. Frank has both a Cougar and a Mustang with 427 Tunnel Port engines that he and his wife drive regularly on the street. He says they are no problem at all. Frank is the Cougar Eliminator Registrar for the Cougar Club and can be Emailed at: bowers@clink.com A hell of a nice guy to talk with. Later, David Shelton (Looking for a 427 SO MR)

[Ikestaa]

Can't offer any advice, but a 13:1 CR and a nasty cam profile on a 427 SO tunnel port would certainly make for one he!! of a motor. Can you just imagine the sound!

[Toivo]

I'd go with a long stroke to pick up some torque in the lower ranges and to increase displacement to better use the TP's flow capabilities.

The TP was sluggish at lower RPM's at it's 'stock' displacement of 7 liters. Once the displacement increases though, the heads better fit the block. I'd use a 428 crank, whether you stroke that or not depends on the rest of the combo and intended operating range.

As for intakes, you don't have the FI crossram one do you? If so, I'd convert that to EFI if you're into one-off projects. Otherwise, since it's bragging rights and show, go for the 2x4V spyder intake and chrome the valley cover.

All JMO's.

[bmalone]

Hey Turk:

I am negotiating to buy a TP SO in a 10 year-old Contemporary. I drove the car last weekend.

Build sheet shows 590 HP at 5800 and surprisingly, nearly 600 ft. lbs. of torque. Specs are 9.5:1 compression, custom-ground cam to match compression ratio, stainless roller rocker assembly, 2x4 intake. The motor itself is a thing of beauty, especially the chromed, TP intake, which sits way above the block (actually lots of space between manifold and block.

I too read the stories about fouled plugs and poor streetability. My impression after driving was this: surprising amount of torque and pulled hard from the bottom. At the same time, it was clear that the power didn't really come on till 4000 and up. It pulled long and hard well past 6000. It was a bit lopey, and idle was 1000-1100. I did not think it was so hard to drive. You did have to work the clutch a bit to get going.

I am told the trick to not fouling plugs is not to start it up to impress your buddies and then shut it down. In other words, every time you start it, run it untill hot. THere is also an MSD ignition which addresses this problem.

THe TP heads flow 20% better than standard MR heads due to circular port shape (wireframes of fuel/air would show mixture assumes a circular or oval shape under velocity).

I was motivated to do something a little different also. Decided SOHC would be too hard to get parts for, so TP is exotic and there are a fair amount of heads/intakes out there. THe look and sound of that motor is awesome.

In SoCal, an acknowledged FE expert is Don Borders at Image AUto Works. 760-200-5882. Please do not try and buy my TP =)

Bill

[CSX 4027]

tHE GAIN YOU MIGHT HAVE WITH TUNNELPORT MIGHT NOT BE WORTH IT IN THE POWERBWBAND. iF YOU COULD GO hIGH RISER AND COMPRESSION YOU MIGHT BE IN the RIGHT DIRECTION. i HOPE YOU ARE NOT PLANNING ON LEmans RODS. You need tho move into the new century. Here;s the program
Sideoiler,Chevized rods,crank etc. JE new flow pistons. Edelbrock aluminum heads to flow by a pro. 12:1 compression. You will rev to 6800 all day and make 580 to 600 depending on the build. I have lots of info on what works and what does not..TOIK

[Jeff Frigo]

Turk:

I would build as many cubic inches as possible. The larger, the more streetable. If you are not dead set on using a cast iron block, I would use an aluminum block from Shelby (maybe he will give you a dicount seeing that you are now in good standings) and build a 526. This is a 4.440 bore with a 4.250 stroke.

I assume you know about Dove Performance. If not, call them and ask for a catalouge. They specialize in FE parts. They make two diffent heads and two different intakes for TP's. (440) 236-5139. They will even build you a 604 cu. in. SOHC using brand new parts for about $40,000.

I would stay with pump gas (10.5 - 11.0 to 1 comp.). Race gas motors run hot, are hard to get gas for, and not worth the extra 50HP or so.

With a solid roller, and the correct person doing the porting, I believe 700 HP is very doable, maybe 750 HP. I see two problems though. It will stick throught the hood (no biggie) and you will need somebody to make some exhaust with 2.25 inch primary tubes. Not going to be cheap, my guess would be $20,000.

I know you have an engine buider, but you might want to talk to the person that built my engine. He is in Central CA. Made 585 HP at 6,000 rpm with a solid lifter (non roller) cam, Edelbrock heads, 10.8 comp. (pump gas) and an Edelbrock dual plane intake. He has built quite a few FE's and understands porting and camshafts very well. He speced. the cam himself (didn't use one out of a book). Most builders don't understand things that well. He held a Super Stock record in NHRA for over two years with one of his engines. He is now building Pro-Stock engines for a gentleman named Ben Watson. He just started doing this last year and actually qualified for one race with a driver that never drove a Pro-Stock car before in his life. He is usually within .05 seconds from qualifying. This is the most competitive form of motorsports in the world. A 16 car feild will qualify within .08 sec. from 1st. to 16th. There is only a 25 HP diff. from top to bottom.

E-mail me if you are interested.

[Turk]

Jeff,
I already have a std. bore 427 SO block I want to use. No sleeves or nothing. I also own two pairs of Tunnel Port heads.
One set reportedly set up with a matched alum. intake for the Petty Enterprises. Interestingly enough, the heads were worked over by none other than old Smokey Yunick.

I definetely want to use these parts. I figured, due to the thin nature of the cylinder walls and that eventually they will get bored and rebored again, I don't want to bore them to start with any more than they need to be to clean it up. Maybe I will get lucky and they will clean up at .010 or less over.

When you say Central California, what city are you talking about?
Would he welcome a visit or a phone call? I don't want to impose on his time. I am all ears to any advice.Trying to do this right.
I am not trying to build THE motor that will be borderline of running at max HP and blowing up.

I am willing to settle for something a little less than that. Time is of no significance, since I already have an engine in the car and it runs great. This one will be to get it out of my system.

Chances are I will take your advice and stop short at 11 to 1 compression. I don't want to have to drive to Sears Point everytime I need gas.

I am beginning to see how crazy this could get. That is not my intent. I will be very happy at 600HP.

$20,000 looks like what it will take. At least I have spread this expense over a period of time and have bought some of the major components one at a time, earlier. This is why it won't hurt as much!

Thanks again.

TURK

[Turk]

CX4027
Steve, you are more than likely right.
Even though my solicitation for information would lead one to believe, I am trying to build a competetive engine. The truth is I will not use this engine in my car for that purpose and don't need to go all the way to the edge. Reliability is a major issue. Hate to spend that kind of money to have an engine good for a few passes.
There will be a practical limit to the compression.

I have no intent to use the Lemans rods, that came with the b;pck. I will sell them to someone and use the money, more than likely towards Eagle Rods.

Thanks for your input and it is always welcome. It will be a while before this thing finds it's way on the Dyno. So it is not too late for any last minute advice.
Will be taking it to the machine shop this Friday.

TURK

[Turk]

bmalone
You don't have to worry about me trying to buy the TP under you!
I don't believe I will be buying anything else anytime soon.
I have the major components, I don't need to call Dove. Not yet anyway. I just need to decide on Harland Sharpe or Dove rocker arms.Most anythng else is already are here.

If my engine will idle at 1000 RPM I can live with that. I now have to talk to few others about solid vs. hydraulic lifters.

I too would love to have had a SOHC. I just don't want to sell the car to afford the engine. When I am done I would still need to buy another car. There wouldn't be a point to it.

Good luck to you too. I am sure we have many who will be laughing their butts at both of us, for what we are trying to do. They may very well be right in their amusement.

TURK

[Turk]

Toivo
I am hearing pros and cons of stroked or not on this engine. I am all ears. I have two 427 steel cranks and would love to be able to use one of them. I am really not sure which way will be better yet.
I won't be doing Fuel Injection nor will I be doing NOS. I don't want to go totally of the deep end.

TURK

[Turk]

Aussie Mike
Controrary to popular belief I am not doing it to beat up on Evan. I don't need an engine for that. I have wanted this long before I even had the car. I may be sorry, but got to live the dream. Once at least.

kountzecobra
Will definetely take your advice and give Frank a call. Too much information would not be bad in this instance. I could use all the knowledge that is out there.

Ikestaa
The noise will be the icing on the cake.

TURK

[Aussie Mike]

Go for it Turk!

I understand what you are doing. It comes back to that saying "Too much is just right" I figure if the car isn't a daily driver build something that is just insane fun to drive.

And for an example of this philosophy... have a listen to Bill Cosby's "200MPH".

Cheers

[bmalone]

Turk and Jeff:

It doesn't stick through the hood on a Contemporary, although other kits will be different. Had normal hood scoop on car. Intake was Ford aluminum 2x4 single plenum.

If you have the motor apart, I would use hydraulic rollers. Can get just as much HP and rev nearly as high as solids, but no maintenance. With solids, you will be adjusting every 2 - 3000 miles and replacing valve springs more often.

I like the sound of solids better and they are authentic, but there is a lot to be said for reduced maintenance.

Bill

Bill

[Jeff Frigo]

bmalone:

427 SO are not machined to take hydraulics. Much moe performance can be had with solids or rollers. Big deal if you have to lash the valvs once or twice a year, for Gods sake, its a tunnel port.

[bmalone]

Jeff:

I'm keeping the solids in mine, I was merely mentioning that if I had the motor out for dissasembly, I would make the change. It can be done.

Bill

[Guinness]

TURK,
You need to top it all off with webers. That would be the icing on the cake.

[SCOBRAC]

In the words of Nancy Regan.. Just Say No!!!! Why?? (I know why) I concur you will likely see 700hp.. way more than the original NASCAR had at twice the weight. Turk I really think such an engine to be fully appreciated needs to be put into something at least 3,000 Lbs and considerably stiffer that your ERA Cobra. I am thinking that from a torque standpoint the forces involved will be unmanagable and not particularly fun to deal with. Beyond that you will need something like a Speed Demon 1,000 cfm or Holley Dominator on a single plane manifold or two 650 Double Pumpers on a Tunnel Ram.. Idle? 1100-1300

As your neighbor I am worried about property values skyrocketing due to the coolness factor. I look forward to hearing your progress..

Regards,

[Turk]

SCOBRAC

Michael,
The reason you don't want me putting in that motor is you probably want to sleep a little later on the weekends. No such luck. You can come over and help me work on it, or you can just sit in bed and cuss, because I woke you up again..

Don't worry about property values! One more Cobra, and one more bike, we'll be zoned industrial. I understand the taxes are more favorable that way.

If we can just get them to put a gas station that carries race fuel next door to that pretty two story by the park....I would be in heaven.

Do you have room in your back yard for a Dyno, and an alignment rack?

TURK