to 427 or not to 427..?

SCOBRAC · #1 (**permalink**) 05-23-2002, 07:56 PM

Perhaps it is my proximity to Turk's house.. Maybe it is just knowing the longer I wait the harder and more expensive parts will become (enless my neighbor has a garage sale).. More likely it has to do with trying to decide what to do when people say, whoa.. a 427.. It isn't a side oiler, is it? ( not cobra people) and trying to explaine the 428 and why it isn't a 427.. But mostly I think it is about finding out what the top speed of a Cobra really is..

Guys, I am starting to obsess about a building a 427.. Not one of those tunnel port things some guys want to build.. It has to idle.. No. I'm thinking 12:1, single carb, soild cam '66 NASCAR style that will turn 7,000 rpm... I found a short block that has been rebuilt.. It is a service block from 1968.. Steel crank, new pistons.. $5k I have 427 low rise heads that will be fine for the time being.. I could keep the 8v intake and swap out the 450 cfm's for some 650's... Hmmmm...

Any thoughts.. Anyone start out with a perfectly good 425 hp 428 and feel it wasn't enough? Or feel like they need to go 155 mph?? Anyone actually do it? Was it worth it? Are you still married?

Regards,

Ikestaa · #2 (**permalink**) 05-23-2002, 08:18 PM

My only suggestion is to get a nice new cam, I don't think you want one with poop on it.

Sorry, I just couldn't resist being a smart-a$$

Guinness · #3 (**permalink**) 05-23-2002, 08:45 PM

SCOBRAC,
Drive TURK's car, he'll let you if your nice to him.

I was set on an FIA, but after driving the transverse leaf spring FIA I did not like the rough buggy spring ride. I drove TURK's car and really liked the coil over suspension and awesome power of the 427. If you want the 427, build it! You'll never be satisfied until you do.

Turk · #4 (**permalink**) 05-24-2002, 02:27 AM

Coming from a guy who is used to measuring his speed in Mach numbers....I appreciate the compliments. I am very happy with the 427 SO. I don't think it is a must, but it certainly gives one some bragging rights. It is expensive, but worth it!

The way mine was built by George Anderson, it is on the mild side than it is on the wild side. Only 9.6 to 1 compression, solid lifters, lowriser manifold and heads. Idles well, and has plenty of gofast.

Having been bit by "NOT-ENOUGH" bug I am now trying for the TP engine possibly wit NOS. Why? I don;t know.

I have to say my current engine is one I could live forever if I had to. Jeff you were my witness to me getting 14.3 miles to a gallon with 2 4s. What more could I ask.?

I hope my next go at it will give me an engine s reliable as the one I have now. I will let you know when it is time to try the new engine, and hoping both of us will be plesantly surprised.

TURK

ERA535 · #5 (**permalink**) 05-24-2002, 02:55 AM

I have to agree Turk,

Your engine does run nicely.

I think you should put a single 4 barrel on it though...see if you can break 20 mpg.

excelguru · #6 (**permalink**) 05-24-2002, 06:35 AM

You mean there's actually a choice? I thought it was a rule or something.

I'll be running dual quads (Holley 600's) with aluminum Edlebrock heads, myself (ported and polished, of course). Be careful about specifying such a high CR. You can get plenty of power from 10:1, if the engine is built right, and it allows you to use pump gas. But that's the nice thing about doing it your way, you can have whatever you want!

Keith

Clois Harlan · #7 (**permalink**) 05-24-2002, 06:41 AM

Wait a minute wait a minute....Cobra owners don't need gas mileage. We need raw digging horsepower. But, 14 mpg does sound pretty good. My 428 CJ with a single 750 only gets about 16 mph with 373 gears (too low ... will be changed soon).

SCOBRAC, you won't be happy until you build the FE. Very nice and really deep sound. Plus you eliminate a lot of questions from your admirers. But the most important thing is that it just feels good.

bmalone · #8 (**permalink**) 05-24-2002, 08:00 AM

ScobraC:

IMHO if you are going to go the BB route, then you would like to have tons of power and especially torque to make up for the extra weight. 425 HP and similar torque numbers will pale as time goes by. Build it right the first time and shoot for over 500 HP.

427 will provide the foundation to support higher HP numbers (not to say it can't be done w/ 428). Oil passages are larger diameter on center-oilers and SOs. Cross-bolted mains for sustained high RPM use in case that's what you intended.

I am building a TunnelPort.

Bill

GUMBALL · #9 (**permalink**) 05-24-2002, 12:51 PM

Michael,

One man's fire breathing Dragon is another man's pet lizzard. Based on LOTS of intel from this site and our professional, we decided to build a stroked, all-aluminum FE, tame street motor. It has a strong bottom end for future H.P. mods should the need arise. It dyno'd at 487 H.P. @ 5,200 and 568 ft/lbs @ 3,200.

There are those that may think it could use more H.P. To tell the truth, the car scares the crap out of me! Mashing the pedal in ANY GEAR is a bit "nutso" for the street. I think the torque is what's scary. Also, any speed over 100 mph in these open cars will quickly demand your ultimate attention.

Bottom Line: If you have had your car to the limit already and still feel the need for more speed, I would be lead to believe more H.P. was in order. Only you can make that decision. BTW..... at 12:1, you would need octane boost.

$0.02 and good luck.

SCOBRAC · #10 (**permalink**) 05-24-2002, 08:46 PM

Pet Lizard.. Yea.. I like that.. Especially since I drive a Green car. My FE pushes really well until it stops at 124 mph at 5400.. I know I can build the SO for not much more than a nice Rolex.. A good deal less if I trade in my stock of Y2k assault weapons (the only stock I had last year that made anything)..

Octane boost? we have perfectly good AV gas at the airport down the street and my crop duster friends are only paying $3.50 a gallon for 108 octane in volume. That in a one to three mixture with 91 octane (the highest we can have here in CA) will get you 95+ octane which 12:1 will run fine on.. or one to one which will yield almost 100 octane... That nets out to between 2.30 and 2.63 a gallon..

The problem isn't hp or torque.. I have got enough of both in my 428.. it is rpm and particularly the ones over 5400 where my juice cam gives up. The first time I hit redline in 4th I thought I was starving the carbs by not having a hi flow fuel pump.. I put a Carter unit in and the same thing happened.. I checked the timing (again) and checked the MSD, then checked fuel pressure 8psi...

Only then did it occur to me that after about 5400 the 428 was a better anchor than propeller..

Maybe I just need a nifty five speed gear box.. (edit) I just did the math and with a Tremec gear box fifth gear at 5200 rpm gives a top speed on paper of 173 and change. Hmmmm...

Regards,

SCOBRAC · #11 (**permalink**) 05-25-2002, 01:18 PM

Has anyone here ever bought anything from Fastco Auto. A member here has parts listed at what seem to be reasonable core motor prices..

Shaun · #12 (**permalink**) 05-29-2002, 11:29 AM

I have built 2 cobra's. I asked myself the same question you are facing now. I chose a 460 crate. I wanted HP. I realized, after the fact, that any engine I put in the car, (including 428) was a mistake for me. My second I just finished. 427 SO, C8AE. For all the 'talk" I see on this web site about "make it as original as possible", there sure are alot of 351W and 460's. If you are questioning yourself now, that probably means you will be dissapointed if you use anything BUT the 427 SO. For show, people want the 427's. No doubt.

Regards,

Shaun

DougD · #13 (**permalink**) 05-29-2002, 11:58 AM

From what I just read, it sounds to me like your problem is solved. You want a 427, your neighbor Turk has one. Buy his current engine, pop it in and go. Meanwhile, he takes your cash and finishes the TP...

mr0077 · #14 (**permalink**) 05-29-2002, 09:21 PM

I'm with Shaun...did the same thing, my first Cobra was a 460/toploader. I was disappointed 'cause it wasn't a 427. Had to do it right, and did a 427 this time around...this one will be around for a long time...couldn't be more satisfied! LOL

Turk · #15 (**permalink**) 05-29-2002, 10:58 PM

DougD

Thanks for the hard sell. You are absolutely right. He should buy mine, while I finish the other. I couldn't have said it better. Your check is in the mail, as soon as Mike's check clears.

Beats the heck out of me borrowing against the house.
Can you get a 5th. Mortgage for an engine project?

TURK

SCOBRAC · #16 (**permalink**) 05-30-2002, 10:36 PM

I like Shauns idea.. Two Cobras.. I will miss my wife.. Actually I may have my problem solved I found a 427 core motor for $3800 complete and am in the process of luring my former neighbor and Shelby engine builder ('63-66) out of retirement to build the thing.. Does that make it an original or still a replica? Very cool in either case...

That with the just released Cobra R six speed (.62 final drive) I better get flight insurance...

My427stang · #17 (**permalink**) 06-25-2002, 07:07 AM

If you have a good 428, I'd use the 428 crank and build a 447-454 Ford with the 427 block. We did one for a 64 Galaxie a few years back and it was a monster. It wont rev like a 427, but it made a lot of power.



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