Bonyhadi--FE dry sump

[Ken Oikawa]

You said quote "had the same on a drag boat when I ran fuel class".

Could you explain how the sprocket inside the oil pan is driven to turn the external oil pump? Is it turned by the crankshaft sprocket from a Gear Drive or by a chain?
Thanks in advance.

Ken

[Mr.Fixit]

Dry sumps are usually run off a cogged belt that is turned by the front of the crankshaft. All the oil pumpingis done external to the motor, usually 4 suction pumps and one pressure pump.

[SFfiredog]

Some of the early FE dry-sumps I've seen (factory XE and Holman/Moody)
used an internal dual pickup oil pump similar (but bigger) to the stock pump. The oil was scavenged out of the pan and deposited into an oil tank. I believe the purpose was for adding a larger oil supply without making the oil pan larger.
The later Boss 429 Nascar motors used externally mounted, cog-belt driven oil/scavenge pump.

[bonyhadi]

Thanks Mike, that is what I had back in 71-72 on a boat, a cig-belt driven oil pump and external tank.

[Ken Oikawa]

Mr.Fixit, SF firedog

My FE dry sump pump was manufactured by HW...Fresno, Ca...at least that is what is stamped on the pumps.

This dry sump has an internal dual pickup oil pump which scanvenges oil to an external tank. The internal oil pump is turned by a shaft connected to the distributor...like a regular oil pump.

Inside and at the front of the oil pan is a sprocket which turns an external pump. My question is...how is the sprocket which is inside the oil pan, driven. It seems logical that a sprocket on the crankshaft meshes with pan sprocket.

[Mr.Fixit]

Haven't seen that style of antique before. Your guess is as good as mine, it would seem thet the only thing in proximity to that gear would be the crankshaft.

[Jeb]

I believe there were two types, the type you have seems to have picked up the name 'Can Am' system. You can get additional information about how it works from here:

http://www.doveperformanceparts.com/Accessories.htm

It uses a sprocket on the crank and a special timing cover.

The other system is known as the GT-40 system and it uses the internal pump, but the external pump is belt-driven and mounted off to the side.

I'd call Dove for details.

[Ken Oikawa]

Mr.Fixit and Jeb

Thanks for your replies.

I know the Dove's Can-Am dry sump (it's the same as the Boss 429); I have one on order since 1993 and still waiting.

The one I have, the sprocket is inside the pan and the pump is outside. To see the pic click on the link in my previous post above. With Dove's, the sprocket is out side while the pump is inside the pan.

Ken

[Jeb]

Does that sound right to you?

The only possible way then to drive that sprocket would be from within the pan?
That would mean what? a mini-differential gear off of the main oil pump driveshaft?
Those oil pump driveshafts are already under a lot of load with just a HV or HP pump, never mind adding on the load of another pump entirely.

Are you sure this is assembled correctly and that the sprocket doesn't belong outside the pan?

Did not know that the Boss 429 used the 'Can Am' system. Does that mean the 385 oil pan rail shares the same dimensions as the FE's? Never really compared the two.

Last minute stupid question. Have you fit the pan you have to an actual FE block? Does the front of the pan extend past the front rail so that the sprocket ends up under the crank snout 'outside' the block (but still in the pan)? Then you would need the special timing cover that covers this extension of the pan and provides the room for the sprocket to mesh with the crank.

[Ken Oikawa]

Jeb

Yes the sprocket would have to be turned from the inside.

So my guess is that this sprocket could be driven by sprocket on the crankshaft snout were the oil slinger would be or just maybe a crankshaft gear for a Gear Drive timing system.

The sprocket for the external pump is located inside and right at the front of the oil pan and would fit just inside the timing chain cover.

There is no input or output port on the pan, these ports are located on the external pump that is located at the front of the oil pan, slightly behind and below the balancer.

No I have not fit the pan on my 427 FE but the pan is definitely for an FE.
To see the pic of the dry sump click on the link below:




Ken

[wtcobra]

I have one and it has XE part numbers and came from H-M along with a couple of engines I bought. Have not looked at it in years but as I recall it was the same as the replicas Dove advertised on the front page of their old catalog. Mine has a large aluminum oil cover as I recall. Dove wanted something like $3500.00 for the one in their catalog. I am not going to use mine so if anyone wants it, I would sell it, I would sell all of my FE parts in a package deal, if the price was right, including a Shelby engine that will run in the low tens with no power adders and a Jag rear end.

Wayne Turpin

[Jeb]

Don't know which of these companies copied or were infjluenced by whose design first, but Doves', H-M's and now yours all sound like they're based on a similiar design.

I think you'd like to be able to buy all the parts with the comfortable assurance that everything will fit and mesh when it comes time to assemble the engine. However, I think this is something that may have to be fit, and re-fit, on the engine itself, with runs to parts stores or industrial supply houses in-between for parts. If you don't have the sprocket for the crank, which seems to be the critical part you're missing, I'd still suggest you call Dove as, even though they're not making the complete setup, could probably provide you with the needed sprocket or at least the appropriate sizing. If they go cold shoulder on you, let us know. It's always good to get actual vendor-attitude feedback.

As for waiting since 1993 for your system, Dove always wanted cash in advance. Did you actually send them money for this. If not, then it's not on order at Dove.

Good Luck

[Mr.Fixit]

I know that nostagia pieces are great, but you may find it easier to just get a new dry sump pump setup with all stages external to the motor. At least those components can be found, you may need to make a bracket though.