Genesis blocks are for real

[mr bruce]

They're here. saw two of them bare, and one in a running,pro stock Maverick. Didn't run no mikes over them but everything looks great.Got a contact number for the Tenn. distributor. As of today they had 10 iron blocks avaliable. Al won't be ready for 14 weeks. I'll post the cats number, but if you're tire kickin', please don't waste the dudes time. They want to get these blocks out and running. Sho special was $2995. 'till Tuesday, then they go to $3495.(iron blocks)Daytime number for Monday is 423-618-1792, Don Cain

[427 S/O]

Don's been beat to death over these blocks, bet he's tickled they finally materialized.

[weekendwarrior]

Mr. Bruce,

Any info on the final weight on the iron and alum blocks bare. Is the iron close to the original?

TIA

[mr bruce]

WeW, gotta guess they're close to original weight, they do have more meat in decks and other weak areas of the originals,so add 5-10 lbs(?) Freaks at the swap meet were still tryin' to get $3k for 35 year old used SO blocks, Some with ventilation ports in lower end.

[A Snake]

Now it shouldn't cost $20K+ to put the right engine in a 427 Cobra. I must admit to enjoying the sourcing when I scrounged up the pieces for my S/O. I even came up with extra odds and ends at good prices, which I promptly turned over at a modest profit.

Oh well, still gotta find decent crankshafts and rods without getting bent over doing it.

Glad to hear they're for real.

Al

[weekendwarrior]

Does anyone have in their hot little hand a block Yet?


TIA

[PatBurke]

I don't have any here yet but I will soon. Just got back from the PRI show in Indy and Genesis had a display set up with a stock SO, thier iron block, and an early aluminum prototype. The iron block wieghs 235 lb, has lifter valley reinforcment ribs (like the Shelby), a beefier skirt and main saddle, siamese bores, .770" thick deck, deeper head stud engagment, and a bore capability of 4.400". The current blocks have cast main caps but there will be an eventual change to billet caps w/ the option of double 3/8" crossbolts.

As I understand it these first few blocks were'nt available to the general public as they are in a semi-finished condition and Genesis would prefer to see them go to racers that will use them up in thier own program and offer some feedback. As of this weekend I believe that all of them are spoken for. The production blocks should be shipping shortly with the aluminum sometime in the beggining of 2003. Don't quote me on any of this but that's the impression I got.

We will be building a twin to our Shelby blocked race engine, complete with big 4.375" bore, using one of these iron blocks. I'm curious to see how much HP the iron block is worth and if the benifit will outwiegh the extra nose weight in our drag car. We will also try some strategic milling to see how much weight we can take out of the iron block.

[weekendwarrior]

Thanks Pat,

Please post when you receive your block.

Genesis 235lbs.

Was the 65' 427 so 200lbs?

Regards

Gary

[PatBurke]

A stock SO block weighs around 210 lbs. bare

[John 550]

anyone order an aluminum Genesis block

[decooney]

So what's the deal, do these blocks really exist yet, and is there at least one person (public consumer) on this board that can actually demonstrate they own one going into a car - with pictures?

So far, its seems to be smoke and mirrors... just wondering...Please advise.

[427Aggie]

Duane,

I don't believe they have been received in bulk yet. I know a couple of our guys went down to see Kieth Craft a week or so ago and he had one in his shop. They are real...as I understand it Corey bought the engine from Keith and will have it built out.

Matt

[RICK LAKE]

Hi Pat WHY in the hell would you want to go to a iron block when you already have a 434 tested motor in your car??? Buy another shelby block and put the biggest crank and bore in it. That should be 550 ci. I have only seen a rough blank block of the new gen motor, was not happy. Nothing was drilled or tapped. The head studs are not to go to the bottom of the block and pull on the main cap and flange area where the most strenght area is. I hope they gave you the motor for jobber. Are you going to heat cycle and vibrate that block or kyrogenic it befor you do the machine work. Looking at that 434 fe you have about 30k in it with great results. To do all the machine work to that motor is going to cost another 15-2k Your shelby didnot need that much to get ready. I hope this motor doesn't become a boat anchor. Time will tell. Your 434 is sweet. Have a great holiday Rick Lake

[Turk]

We have been told they exist. I am still waiting to see it for myself.
Pictures would definetely help.

Other than the cost of the bare block, lets say $5000 for a NOS 427 Side Oiler and a Genesis block....what other savngs would there be building one of these vs. building a period correct engine? I would think the crank, the pistons rods, intakes, carbs etc. will cost no less.
So the savings is only on the block itself.

TURK

[PatBurke]

Rick,
I'm going to try the iron block because I'd like to see how much HP there is to be gained vs. the aluminum. The iron blocks are generally more stable at temp and should maintain better ring seal. Ever notice that all the NHRA Pro Stock engines utilize an iron block. Granted the can afford the extra nose weight.

The class that I race in is based on a lbs. per ci. formula so that somewhat dictatates the engine size that I use. If I build a bigger engine I'd have to add weight. I'd actually prefer to go the other way and build a 421 ci engine and take more weight out. I may end up doing that with the Shelby engine and try the iron one at 434. I have enough parts to build a complete second engine already so if the iron block does'nt work out I can always reblock it with a Shelby.

As far as the Genesis block goes the current version looks pretty good. I met them at the PRI show in Indy last year and they've made a lot of design changes since the first generation. Genesis is actually hooked up with a Kryogenics company and we talked about doing some testing with them. We may do some testing with their aluminum block next year as well.

You are correct that I do already have a proven combo and don't want to get lost out in left field trying new stuff at my expense. They say that they want to "work with me" so we'll see how it works out.

Thanks for the compliment on the engine. It took a lot of work to get to this point and I'm actually into it for closer to $50k from carbs to pan. FE's that will live at 9500 rpm aren't cheap but they sure are fun! Have a good holiday.

Pat

[Sizzler]

I've noticed that you have a carbon fiber 2x4 intake for your FE.

Can I ask where you get such a thing? Any problems with it?
Any other details about it...how much does it weigh?

Thank you.

[PatBurke]

The only way to get one of these is to build it yourself. We built the billet base and Eshelman's Carbon Works built the top. I was originally building a sheetmetal intake and had just finished the billet aluminum base w/ valley tray to match my cylinder heads. I had talked to Wally Eshelman a year prior about doing a complete carbon intake but they could not duplicate the portion of the FE intake with the valve cover rail and pushrod holes. Once I had the base made I got to thinking that it wouldn't be any harder for them to do the top than it would be to do a BBC. I sent the base out to California along with all the critical dimensions. I told them what we wanted for overall hieght, plenum volume, runner taper, and roof angle and they took it from there. Those guy's used to work for Lockheed and had some pretty nice design software. They where also working with Sonny Leonard on some Pro Stock stuff at the time and getting some good feedback. A couple months later I had it on the car and went testing.

I didn't really have any problems with it but I did have to learn a new tune up. The intake eliminates heat transfer to the carbs and the lack of heat in the plenum and runners changes the way the fuel is atomized so that took some trial and error to figure it out. I also had to be more aware of vacuum leaks. Overall the carbon portion weighs 6 lbs. and the base weighs 12 lbs so it's 18 lbs all together. The Dove tunnelwedge that it replaced weighed twice that much. The car picked up about .10 to .15 in et compared to the cast intake.

Eshelman's is no longer in business but I've found the original tooling for my intake and hopefully will be getting possesion of it within a couple months. As far as I know they only built 15 -20 intakes of all kinds while in business, 2 Fords and the rest for BBC's. Mine was the only one ever done that wasn't set up for Dominator carbs. The other Ford intake is on Larry Overby & Hank Hill's 814 ci IHRA Pro Stock Ford Hemi. They've told me that it picked them up over the sheetmetal intake that they used to use.

Overall it worked out well. It's a lot better that the tunnelwedge that it replaced, and if nothing else, it looks cool and it gets a lot of attention whenever I take the hood of the car. I don't know that it's any better than a sheetmetal but I'm a glutton for punishment and have this need to try things that nobody's tried before. Some things work and some don't but I learn from all of them.

Thanks, Pat

P.S. I'll post a close up picture of the intake with my others if I can find a decent one

[RICK LAKE]

Hi Pat Hope your Christmas was great. Question, why not build a 390 larger bore short stroke and take 200 lbs out of the car. I had a 67 Fairlane with a 289,3spd, 350 gears open it was a blast to drive and smoke the 1 tire for 200ft. How much fiberglass is on the car?? I would think the alum block wins out unless their is a compression limit. I am not familiar with this class and it's limits. The faster the wieght transfer to the rear wheels the best the bite and 60 foot time. All the Chevy NHRA pro stocks are using the Merlin tall deck cut down. My machinist has 8 in shop he is working on. Do you come to E-town? I would like to see your car. I can go to E-town, Atco, or Maple Grove. Talk to you latter, going to work. Sat I go and pick up my car from ERA.

[PatBurke]

Christmas was pretty good, thanks for asking. The combo I have now is a relatively big bore / short stroke set up, 4.375" bore x 3.600" stroke, at least for an FE. When I first built it I was required to weight 7.6 lbs. per ci. (3299 lbs at 434 ci.) with HR heads and at the time the car weighed 3320 with driver. The rules allow unlimited internal modifications to the engine but also give a big weight break (.4 lbs per ci) to MR and LR heads. Doesn't make a lot of sense but those are the rules so I had Dove build me a set of MR heads with a raised exhaust and worked on getting weight out of the car last year. The car now has to weigh 3125 with the MR's and it raced last year at 3160 w/ 80 lbs of ballast in the trunk to keep the front to rear distribution reasonable. It has FG fenders, bumpers, hood, deck lid, and doors. There's not a lot of weight left to take out but I could probably get another 40 or 50 out of the front with a carbon fiber hood (I have one that's been started) and titanium bellhousing. That would allow me to take the same from the back without screwing up the distribution. I have a 3.500" crank that I've never tried and it would make 421 ci. in the engine I have now. It would probably work well but I don't know if I feel that ambitious this winter. Lately I've been thinking about actually putting the whole deal up for sale and trying something new next year. Take some cam, valve spring , and compression out and it would make one hell of a Cobra engine. I haven't had the car down in your area much. Almost went to the NSS race at Atco in Sept. but we ended up going to Tacsa Ford day at NE Dragway instead. There is talk that the NMCA may have a race at Englishtown next year but it's probably a long shot. The closest that we usually get to you is Cecil County Dragway in Rising Sun, MD. Good luck with the trip to ERA. Talk to you later.