Which cars had 428s?

[joea]

I'm gonna try the difficult process of possibly locating a 428 block...which cars and model years offered these engines? Especially interested in the CJ...

Thanks

[Ron61]

Joea,

The 428 CJ came in the late 1968 Fairlane Cobra and the 1969 Torino Cobra. also if you are looking for performance get the R code engine as there is no comparison to a Q code and R code except the bore & stroke. The R code came with 427 heads and low end while the Q code is basically a better Thunderbird 428. The R code was what Shelby used in the GT-500KR Mustangs. You can find a lot of 428s around and build them to what you want. I have several books on both motors and my Torino Cobra has the R code with the special option package. Per the Torino Registry there were only 97 made in the configuration I have so it may be hard to get an actual R code motor. I have been offered more just for a few parts off mine than I gave for the whold car. Good luck in your hunt.

Ron

[map]

Joea try this guy he's out your way he always has tons of ford Stuff !
Alex Takessian
619-298-9801
fordlord@aol.com

Mike/Map

Same Old Crap>>>>>>>>

[Guinness]

Joea,
I have a '66 T-Bird with a 428 (Q-code) that is for sale and a friend has two 428 engines he may part with. None are CJs though. E-mail me if interested.

[Anthony]

Ron, from my understanding, regarding the R or Q code, in the torino cobras and Mach I's of '69 and '70, both were 428 CJ motors, same block, crank, and heads. The Q and R in those cars determined what type of hood /air cleaner assembly they got, helping to build the car on the assembly line. The Q code got a standard closed type air cleaner, the R code got "ram air" with outside air induction, on the mustangs it was the shaker scoop.

There was another option called the super cobra jet, and this engine got a different crank, connecting rods, engine oil cooler, adn either 3.91 or 4.30 rear gears. You could get the SCJ motor in either a Q code or R code car.

The 428 CJ block had extra ribs in the main web areas that passenger car 428's didn't have.

I don't think they ever put 428 CJ's in any T-birds. 1967 and 1968 GT500's used the 428 police interceptor, while the GT500KR came with the 428 CJ. In 1969 and 1970, all GT500's came with 428 cj's or 428 scj's, so they didn't call it a GT500KR anymore.

[joea]

The PI blocks had 4 bolt mains but no extra webbing and no thicker cylinder walls correct?

[Anthony]

No 428's ever came with 4 bolt mains. All were 2 bolt. Both the '66-70 PI and '68-70 CJ blocks had thicker main webs, bearing caps, and extra webs in the main area as compared to 428 passenger car blocks.

If you are going to be fooling with these motors, buying parts, you need to know what your looking at. You need to buy

"How to rebuild Big-Block Fords" by Steve Christ.

There is more info in there that you will ever need to know.

[Ron61]

Anthony,

My 1969 Torino Cobra is still just as I took delivery of it and there is a huge difference in the Q and R code 428 CJs. I saved my Mustang Ford Trader magazine from April 1998 and it has a three page article about the differences. The R code has 427 heads, and a lot of stronger bottom end stuff. I have had mine apart and it has 427 numbers on the rods and everything. Mine is in the Cobra Registry and they only made 97 of my particular type. Mine has all NASCAR drive train and the dealer did bore the motor and blue print it. I still have the original old Polyglas tires on it. Also the R code cars had to run in the 400 horsepower plus class at the drags. If my scanner would scan words I would send you a copy of that article. I saved it because a cop that is a friend of mine was arguing that my car never came with the stuff in it that it has and I showed him that article and he called Ford and they verified it. So there really is quite a difference in the 428 CJ and the 428SJC. My car was also checked for over an hour by the Fairlane Club of America's president a few years ago and he said it was really the only one just like it he had ever seen but it definately was one of the original 97 of that setup.

Ron

[KobraKarl]

This type of conversation crops frequently here at CC , I have read Steve Christ's book cover to cover at least twice and have re-read large portions countless times . It is a terrific resource, but it still comes up well short of "definative" as the above thread and many others show.

Has Ford ever published an accurate reference book that lays out what went where and when? at least to 95% + accuracy?

how about someone else? I realize fords manufacturing and assembly proccesses were not terribly consistant, but someone new at one time..............is that info lost ?

Thanks Karl

[Anthony]

Ron, it sounds like you have a very unique and desireable car, one that I have always thought of trying to get some day.

I can't comment on the Q vs R code torino's, as there may be a difference in the engines, but I can tell you, with mustangs and cougars, whether it was a Q code or a R code, the 428 cj motor was the same. One common misconception is that alot of people think that an R code mustang means a SCJ motor. That is not the case. If your cylinder heads have 4 bolt holes around each exhaust port, then you have 428 cj heads, which are designed from 427 low riser heads. They're the only heads that came that way, with 4 bolt holes around each exhaust port. The cam and top end of cj and scj motors were the same. The heart of the 428 scj motor was the use of the 427 lemans capscrew connecting rods. All other engine modifications were required because of this change. The 427 cap screw lemans rods used in the scj motors were heavier than the standard cj rods. This required a different dampner and flywheel to balance the motor correctly. Although the lemans rods were better than the standard 428 cj rods, they probably are inferior to what is available today.

Ron, I own a 1970 428 SCJ Mach I. One of 1000. They built a total of 3500 cj and scj mustangs in 1970. I also have a set of matching 1968 428 cj heads and intake from a GT500KR, dated 4/68. They have the 4 bolt holes around the exhaust ports.

here is a link from a 428 cj mustang web site comparing the 428 cj and scj motors.

http://www.428cobrajet.com/cj-vs-scj.html

[Ron61]

Karl,

I have a book-" The 1969 Mustang Cobra Jet Engine Reference Manual by Joseph G. Sikora that tells everything about the 428 CJ and 428SJC engines, right down to the color of each bolt and if the factory paint had missed some parts". My car was not a show room car as it was a special order that the dealer could only get 1 of. The only way I knew about it was the dealer was a friend of mine and called me one day and asked me if I wanted one. I have seen two R code Mustangs and they both have the same heads as mine which are 427 MR heads. I don't know about their rods and such as I never saw the inside but my engine has the 427 NASCAR rods in it. And as I stated above, mine is in the registry and they can only verify about 30 some of the original 97 of this setup. There were 500 Torino and Fairlane Cobras made and you cann find that information at the Torino Cobra website. My engine has a flat tappet solid lifter Isky cam with 302 duration and .630 lift and also has an 850 Holly double pumper which was all dealer options in 1969. The boring and blueprinting I asked for. The NASCAR running gear was another unpublished option. I also have the so called drag pack which is another option that wasn't published in 1969. But no, so far as I knonw there is no actual count of all the engines made and what options you could have from the factory and dealer. I wouldn't have know about any of the stuff I have if the dealer hadn't told me about it.

Ron

[Ron61]

Anthony,

You are correct about everything you have said and as I stated in my last post, there were so many dealer/factory options available that if you didn't know them then you got the standard CJ engine. I am not trying to argue as I am sure you know far more about them than I do. I have had many people come to look at my car and all have said it was one of a kind. I was offered more for the ram air setup than I gave for the car back then. Mine is almost impossible to drive on the street as it requires at least 105 octane gas and I run 110 Union 76 in it which is what the Winston Cup cars use. There are no build sheets or anything for my car, just the original order form signed by the dealer that it was a special order Cobra.

Ron

[KobraKarl]

This is exactly what im talking about ..according to Steve Christ
the 428 cj and scj is actually a low riser head in a medium riser application ........whatever that means???????

[joea]

So what is the difference between a PI and a CJ block? I have the How to Rebuild Big-Block Ford Engines Book, but I think a bit more detail is missing about the minute differences between these blocks

[KobraKarl]

Mr. Christ does a fairly thorough job of discussing the 427 ,clearly his favorite.perhaps the Sikora mustang book would be a better read for the care and feeding of the 428.

[Anthony]

From what I can remember, the 428 cj engine was actually a comglomerate of parts basically already available by Ford. The 390 GT fairlanes and mustangs were losing to GM and Mopar's at the drag strips and with street racing, so TASCA ford assembled a 428 engine together taking I think a 428 PI block, GT 390 hydraulic cam, low riser 427 heads, etc., and put it in a mustang, which was featured in Hot Rod. The reader response was so great, and when Ford got wind of it, they decided to come out with this package called the cobra jet. So, I think the 428 cj block is actually a 428 PI block, a heavy duty block. I think I have an article somewhere about this.

Christ's book doesn't go in to this detail, but I think his book is excellent in identifying parts. You don't want to pay a premium price of a cj block when it is a standard 428 block. His book helps you not to be taken. His book doesn't have everything in it. About 1 year ago, I looked at a 427 side oiler, that the guy said he bought from Holman-Moody back in the late sixties for stock car racing. I almost bought the engine for $5000, but he wouldn't pull the heads for me to confirm the standard bore, or the shape of the cylinders, so I didn't buy it. The heads on that engine were not listed in Christ's book, but since then, I think found out that they were truly 427 heads.


I have heard of factory anomalies, 428 cj engines with standard 428 blocks, etc.

The 428 scj was not offered until 1969.

Thanks for the complement Ron, but there are alot of guys who know alot more than me about these engines.

This web site is excellent for FE engines, info. There are guys on this site that eat, sleep, and $hit FE stuff, that can tell you anything you want to know.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/21142