Toploader Vs Tko Ii

[Clois Harlan]

Since Turk is pre-occupied with his new aluminium engine I must throw this out for discussion:

How many FE guys have had a Toploader that are now running a TKO II? I need some pros and cons on this one because I plan or ordering a TKO II from David Kee next week!

I would appreciate your input on this one.

Clois

[Tony Ripepi]

Hello Clois,

I've driven both with various degrees of 427's, 428's, multiple stroked 351's of different potentcy and the TKO is by far better for all around comfort and drivability. I have the TKO with the .68 overdrive 5th gear in my car. The TKO II has a .83 overdrive 5th so adjust the figures below accordingly 32% vs 17% reduction in RPM when going from 4th to 5th.

If you are only going to drive your car on the track the toploader is the choice for gear selection and bullet proof nature. If your planned driving includes driving/cruising for pleasure the 5th gear is great. Last weekend I drove my Unique 427 to Redding 220 miles cruising on the highway 75-90 MPH most of the time in 5th and occasional drops to 4th and got 15MPG.

The engine has a tremendous amount of torque and in 5th will accelerate very well, if you really want to move fast the down shift to 4th will clear the road in front of you. Cruising in 5th at 75 the engine is turning 2300RPM at 100MPH it is turning 3000 RPM. In 4th at 75 MPH the engine is turning 3300 RPM and in 4th at 100 MPH the engine is turning 4200 RPM. you can have a conversation in the car with no problems and minimal yelling.

BTW I have 3:54 gears in my rear end ....this is a factor. I owned an SPF with the 460/535 ford crate motor with the TKO and 3:73 rearend gears in it and had a very similar experience. I put the TKO behind the stroked 351 that is in my coupe with 3:55 gears in the rear end. Drove the SPF 10,000 miles and the Unique 4000+ miles...the FFR Coupe is still under construction.

I'm sure you will get numerous responses here but, make the choice that fits what you will be doing in your Cobra.

Tony R.

[joea]

Why not consider a Richmond Gear 5sp...won't this give the best balance of performance/drivability/durability?

[Tony Ripepi]

HI Joea,

The Richmond 5-speed is very good box, 5 speeds but, the top gear is 1:1 no overdrive. The Jerico is another option but, it is not an overdrive either they both tend to be road race boxes and very strong.

BTW in binary 11 + 11 + 11 = 101...Love the byline.

Tony R.

[Clois Harlan]

The Richmonds final gear ratio is 1:1 and on long cruises I turn a lot of RPMs for long periods of time (not good). That is unless you go with a 6 speed and I don't want that.

Has anyone ever raced with the TKO II?

Clois

[Anthony]

If you want lower rpms with cruising, an alternative to the TKO I/II, would be

1) A wide ratio toploader (2.78 1st gear) with a 3.07 rear. The wide ratio toploader still has closer spaced gears than a TKO, for better performance. First gear multiplication would be about 8.5:1, still good for a hole shot.

2) A richmond 5 sp, opt for the 3.04 first instead of the 3.27, and get 2.88 or 3.07 rear gears, for a even closer gear spread, and yet give lower highway cruising rpms.

[Lew Ledyard]

Is there much of a weight difference between a top loader and a Tremac?

[rdorman]

Love my toploader. Now if it only had an overdrive attached to it!

[Clois Harlan]

I really like the Toploader too but I need a little less RPM's at cruising speeds on the interstates.

I guess no one has ever used the TKO II on a road course or drag strip?

Clois

[joea]

so which is "best"
1) TKO II
2) A wide ratio toploader (2.78 1st gear) with a 3.07 rear. The wide ratio toploader still has closer spaced gears than a TKO, for better performance. First gear multiplication would be about 8.5:1, still good for a hole shot.
3) A richmond 5 sp, opt for the 3.04 first instead of the 3.27, and get 2.88 or 3.07 rear gears, for a even closer gear spread, and yet give lower highway cruising rpms.

[Anthony]

What is best depends uponn what you want to do, what you already have, how much money you want to spend, etc.

All three options would be fine for cruising. The only think with the TKO, is that with first gear being 3.27 : 1, if you run a 3.73 rear, it may be a bit too "steep" for a good hole shot, being that a big block cobra has a high torque/weight ratio , and you don't need a steep first gear.

For all out performance, probably either a close ratio toploader with 3.54/3.73 rears, or go for the gusto, a Jerico or G-Force custom racing transmission, either of which make a five speed of 100's of different ratio combinations, that can enable you to have "somewhat" of an "overdrive" gear ratio combination.

[PJS50]

Glad to see somebody bring this one up because I have been toying with the same question based on top gear (4th or 5th)ratios for a mostly "street" car...
All the Tremec 5 spds I have seen (which admittedly isn't very many) had final gear ratios which were 1:1 just like the Toploader, so I really never understood what the big pull toward them was (besides strength)... I have a lot of experience with wide ratio Toploaders in a few different cars and they have always seemed to be a really strong and "workable" setup, especially with a good low-end torque motor like the FE's...
If the 5 spd Tremec is available with a lower ratio in 5th, that would be the one that I would (and probably will in my AC) use, otherwise, for me, it will be a wide ratio Toploader...again.

[DAVID GAGNARD]

I know of a lot of guys in the mustang crowd that run tremecs and drag race their 3400lb. cars with slicks all day long.. One local guy dumps the clutch at 5500 rpms and shift at 6500 without letting off the gas.... He has yet to even change the fluid in his tremec. All these guys are running small blocks but some are stroked to 408 and produce plenty of hp.....

I think a tremec will hold up in a lite cobra and love the 5th overdrive for the highway.... A toploader is an excellent trans. though,just depends on your needs...

Hey I even got the little smiley face to work....now if I could post pics I'd really be in tall cotton....

David

[Chaplin]

Clois-
I debated the same thing and finally went with the TKO II. I don't know anyone that races with one, but the TKO II is considered Tremec's "road race" transmission. It has a higher torque rating than the std. TKO (475 ft/lbs v. 425 (I think the regular is rated at 425), third gear is apparently stronger than the standard TKO third gear and the overdrive is .83 as opposed to .68.

I really wanted the overdrive. Given the light weight of a Cobra coupled with the propensity for wheel spin, I would think that you would spin the tires before you could put enough torque to the ground to break the transmission.

But we'll see. I've got the trans sitting in the garage waiting for the car to arrive.

I avoided the Richmod for a couple reasons. One, I have heard that it does not shift as well as the Tremec or toploader (again this is pure rumor, no personal experience). Second, in order to get the desired overdrive effect with a Richmond you would have to use a 2.8 rear (or there about) which would mean that if you ever wanted to switch to a top loader, and use a 3.54 rear you would have to change the whole carrier (with the jag rear anyway). I'm not sure what the cut off is (someone help me here), but I believe that above or below a certain gear ratio you have to change the whole carrier. For example if you had a 3.31 and wanted a 2.8 you would have to change the whole carrier rather than just the ring and pinion gears (someone correct me if I'm wrong). At least with the tremec you will probably use a rear gear ratio equal to or close enough to what you would use with a top loader so that you could easily swap out to a top loader with out major headaches.

That's my .02

[Clois Harlan]

Thanks everyone for your input. I talked to George Anderson of Gessford Machine shop and he tells me that is all he puts behind his FE engines. George races his Cobra with an automatic but several of his customers use the TKO II.

I think the TKO II will be my choice of Transmissions and I will let everyone know how it holds up on a road course and a few drag events.


Clois

[frankym]

I am curious if any of the fellow tremec owners are actually using 5th on the road courses. I know it'll take some getting use to but if you get them into 5th, it takes a little bit of sensitivity to speed shift back to fourth. I am curious if I should plan on staying out of 5th on the track. Seems like if I just used the tremec as a standard H pattern 4spd on the track and use 5th only for 70mph + driving on the highway, it works best. I haven't owned my car for that long, but given the limited occasions I have with most of my driving to even get into 5th, does this make sense? It's a very smooth transmission, but the gears do take some getting used to, with some of the 4spd like top loaders and side loaders, they are such short throws and really do allow you to shift through the gears in a hurry. Like I said, I am still getting used to the shift pattern.