Seeking advice...

[proudlakester]

Sorry for cross-posting..., but I realized I
probably didn't post originally to the best
possible forum...

I'll try to keep this short...

The car I'm driving now was originally built
with a 427 that was never broken in and was
allowed to sit for a # of years. After applying
every little trick I could think of..., it's still a
smoking, oily mess (OK compression though).

It's "driveable"..., but kinda unsightly.

I have a fair pile of 428 pieces in my
possession. The biggest missing piece is
the crank. Have block, rods, heads, most of
valve train. I think all could be returned to
service.

1. I'm tired of the oil burning thing.
2. I don't want a race engine.
3. I don't want to take the car down for a
protracted period of time.
4. I don't want to spend big $$$ on this
particular car/engine.
5. I'm thinking of building up the 428 in a
fairly plain-Jane fashion, while continuing
to drive w/ the 427. (Note: the 427 is
completely "stock").
6. Once the 428 is done, quicky engine
swap.

What would you do?

How much do you
think you'd have to spend? (I'd be using
my current intake and ign system.)

And where
in the bleep do you find a 428 crank? (Had
one..., was stolen..., sigh.)

Or..., do you think that an O/H on a current-
ly running 427 is sufficiently low-risk that
it could be done in fairly short order, and
at modest cost (for a modest engine)? I
believe my current 427 block will at least
need to be sleeved this time around.

Thanks!

P.S.: A little more "back story" for anybody
that cares: I'm pretty sure at this point, the
oil scav. rings are fubar. Have replaced
valve stem seals..., helped a little, but not
much. Did the marvel mystery oil thing...,
nada. I've got a rotten back..., so frankly,
a ring job is as much work for me as
pulling the whole engine. Pulling the engine
is actually easier in the long run, back-wise.
So..., when I set out to do this stuff nowa-
days..., I only do what I'm 100% sure
is gonna work. Hence the bias for doing
an engine O/H in one form or another.
It's easier on my back, and I KNOW what
is going on w/ the engine.

[SCOBRAC]

Rebuild the 427.. you should be able to throw a hone on the cylinders, replace the rings, seals and gaskets for a few hundred plus labor and machine shop fees..

Find a good builder. The guy building chevys down the road will make a mess of your 427 without even knowing he did it..

If you need FE parts e-bay is a mecca for all types of obscure pieces or check the parts for sale here. I bet you can have a nice running 427 for less than 2k if you use what you have.

[SCOBRAC]

Or.. I see you are in Lakeport.. I am about to sell the 428 in my car right now.. We can pull your engine out, and put my 428 in your car in trade for the 427.. It might sound nuts but I am looking for a 427 to build. That yours is a smoker is no big deal.

It's got a basic 335 hp (more like 375) rebuilt 1968 short block, 1968 428 GT heads (not rebuilt but less than 20K) It has an aluminum Cobra "T" pan, and windage tray that I was going to take off and sell, but you can have those too..

I get 70psi of oil pressure at start up.. 45-55 running around.. I would keep the manifold and carbs, valve covers and surge tank, but it sounds like you have those anyway. The clutch is almost new, it was changed when the lower end was rebuilt.. It and the flywheel were balanced when the lower end was rebuilt.. The pilot bearing is new, etc.. It would drop right in

It is running, in the car now come see it if you are interested. Take a drive..

That said I would still build the 427.. But you can have this motor tomarrow if you want it..

[SFfiredog]

Lakester,
I'd perform a leak-down test to verify the condition of the rings. You may have something as simple as an intake manifold gasket leak that is allowing engine oil to be sucked into the intake ports under vacuum. You mentioned possibly having to sleeve the block this time around? How many times has it been bored and what is the bore over-size now? A .005 custom oversized piston is less expensive and more practical than sleeving all eight holes. A quick sonic check of the bores would verify if there is enough meat for an overbore.
hth,
--Mike

[chopper]

My $0.02 here. I agree with Mr. SCOBRA, but with a couple of stipulations. First, I assume the block is still serviceable; unfortunately, I know of no way to determine this without taking the engine apart and subjecting the block to a sonic check, dye-penetrant inspection and magna-flux. These will determine whether the block has any cracks and give you an idea on how much meat remains in the cylinder walls. Assuming (again) that the cylinder walls are within spec, a clean-up bore or hone should put you back in business. As has been stated in numerous threads on this forum, the maximum recommended overbore on these blocks is about 0.030 inch. Anything over that will require sleeves, and the cost/benefit analysis shifts accordingly.

I further agree with Mr. SCOBRA that it would be imperative that you patronize someone who knows how to fix your FE properly. I didn't the first time and have the receipts and legal bills to prove it. The average mechanic was still in grade school when these engines went out of production, and the FE engines require some pretty intricate knowledge to build properly.

I don't know how you define "protracted period of time" or "big $$$" but there are several options, such as Gessford or Southern Automotive, who will rebuild the engine properly. I dealt with Southern and was pleased with the results. As a point of reference, I dropped the engine off at Bill's facility and he personally returned it about eight weeks later, ready to install. At least a couple of weeks of that delay were caused by me, when I changed my mind about something in the middle of the build. Bill graciously changed direction in mid-stream and complied with my requests with no complaints at all. I have also had some small occasion to correspond with Mr. Anderson at Gessford on a couple of questions, and he was very courteous and helpful in answering my questions. If I may make a suggestion, why don't you call these two individuals and inquire about getting your engine rebuilt? It would at least give you some kind of idea about the cost and schedule implications about such a move.

From a completely different angle, I observe that I've been told by a couple of the manufacturers that my car with a 427 is worth $5k to $8k more than my same car if equipped with a 428. While I would never advise anyone to choose one over the other based solely on the cost/value differential, it is one item to keep in the back of your mind. Yes, I am well aware that many of the original cars came with 428s in them, but the single most common question I get asked is "Is that a 427 in there?" The inquirer may not even know what a 427 is, but that seems to be what they want to see. (I did, in fact, have one person at a cruise meet pull a mechanic's mirror out of his pocket, thread it down the side of the block and check for the drain plugs and crossbolts, but that has only happened once.) If I were starting from scratch, I would have to debate the cost/benefit issues to see which one I wanted. However, since you already have the 427, it may behoove you to try to get it running correctly rather than get rid of it. My opinions, FWTW.

[GEORGE ANDERSON]

Just a suggestion...but I'd consider checking to see if the rocker arm shafts are installed upside down and the oil holes are lined up with the rocker oiling hole in error....my guess...but just a guess you have stock rocker assemblies and they were disassembled and then reassembled with the shaft upside down...
George

[SCOBRAC]

See what I mean.. you can't put a price on that kind of wisdom.

[proudlakester]

Indeed.

I'm very impressed and more than a little
thankful for the variety and scope of the
responses I've received to my rather lengthy
question.

I apologize for not having sent thanks to
everyone individually..., but please accept
those thanks now.

Of course..., what to do?

It's sort of funny. As you might surmise from
my question..., I had basically made my mind
up. But y'all have given me quite a bit to
think about (and a couple of great diagnostic
ideas to boot).

As things progress, I'll try to keep the forum
posted as to how things turn out.

Once again..., thanks! -- Proudlakester

[A Snake]

With all due respect to George....and from what I hear, he's earned it, and since you're on the West Coast, another place to consider, would be Larsen & King (a.k.a. Portland Engine Rebuilders) in Portland, Oregon Ted King built my 427 S/O and many others for Cobras. To my knowledge, none of them have given the owners anything but big grins.

As has been previously said, not just every Tom Dick and Harry can successfully build a 427.

The suggestions for a leakdown test and a look see at the rocker shafts are a pretty cheap thing you can do yourself. Also the intake manifold. It's truly amazing what an internal oil leak can cause in the way of smoke and excess oil usage.

If you want to contact Ted King for info. His shop # is: 503-230-1276

Tell him Al Martindale recommended you to call. No I don't get a spiff, but he'll warm up to the conversation quicker. Ted is currently building a 427 S/O for another well known Club Cobra person.

Do keep us all posted.



Al

[FE Specialties]

Hey Lakester,
You have a lot of variables that need addressing. I can help you troubleshoot your situation so that you can make a intelligent decision on what to do!! Give me a call!!!!!

[LrgSnakeNoCobra]

I found you guys looking for info on a problem for my 352. I was wondering if anyone has seen a situation where oil was getting in to the cooling system but everything else was working fine. I thought it could be the intake gasket. I hope it's as simple as that. Anyone have any personal experience on this?

Thanks.

[GEORGE ANDERSON]

On the intake manifold you might have a leak on the very front of manifold drivers side
also this was an old repair possibility.
http://www.gessford.com/images/AERA-...-Pg1-00060.JPG
http://www.gessford.com/images/AERA-...-Pg2-00059.JPG
George