Engine died after 20 minutes

[CJ428CJ]

I'm confused about this oil cooler business. How does the debris get in the cooler? Don't all oil coolers branch off from the motor immediately after the oil filter? If that's the case I can't imagine how any debris would get in the cooler in the first place unless the oil filter was breached some how. What am I missing?

Chris

[Cracker]

That is an excellent point. I'm holding off ordering that new oil cooler.

Cracker

[Mr.Fixit]

It's your motor, if you are comfortable with that optamistic assesment of the probabilities of metallic debris somehow breaching pleated paper, than take the $200 gamble on a multi-thousand dollar engine.

[flipper35]

Most filters have a by-pass to allow oil to flow if they get plugged. Some work better than others, but with that much debris? Some, like the cheap fram by-pass a lot of oil anyway.

[Ron61]

Listen to what Fixit and Brent are saying. An oil cooler is cheap insurance in a case like these. If I ever found any debree in mine I would change the oil cooler without hesitation. I don't like to gamble with an expensive engine and try to save a couple of hundred on an oil cooler. Just my 2 cents worth.

Ron

[Jack21]

Another lesson to be learned here is ALWAYS use valvesprings recommended by your cam manufacturer for that particular grind, and set them up with the tolerances specified. Take the springs that came with the heads and return them for credit.

[Mr.Fixit]

And if it's a big lift cam that has dual valvesprings (not including the dampner spring) than breaking in the cam without the inner spring is sometimes recommended.

[ERA 626]

If it makes you feel any better... Look at my gallery) That 428 ran for about 30min. then the cam went flat. A few of the lobes were rounded. I think maybe I did not keep the rpm,s up enuff? Maybe air pocket in the intake causing the topend to get hot? may mis adjusted valve lash. But needless to say the bottom end of the motor was trash. I got over it and decided to buy a new csx block and have Gessford build it. Plus I had a rear seal oil leak.

[DaveR]

In an attempt to avoid lifter/lube problems like these, I plan to groove my lifter bores. This will allow oil to drip down from above directly onto the cam lobe. Look at the lifter bore grooving tool on page 379 of the Comp Cams catalog(I assume that everyone who has a Cobra also has the latest Comp catalog). Does anyone here have any experience with this modification? Seems like a good idea to me, are there any Cons?

[Steve R]

Venum S,
Just curious. What was your oil pressure? I just read the whole thread and did not see it. Sorry if I missed it. I have never seen a lifter split like that before. Are you sure the push rod balls were the proper diameter for the lifters?
Steven

O.k. Are you sure that is (was) a solid lifter? The ones I have dealt with on various engines were solid. I.E. machined from one piece of stock. Could the one in your picture be missing componants? I just poped one out of my b.b. chrysler, and sure enough it is solid. Maybe the pushrod is normally that far down into the lifter body on a 385 engine. It's been a long time since I built my 429 C.J.

[Steve R]

How far down into the lifter body was the pushrod ball socket when you assembled the engine?
Steve
Could we see a picture looking down into the lifter?
How fat are the pushrods? could the side of the pushrod have knocked the sides of the lifter off? When you assembled it did you turn the engine over by hand with the valvetrain installed minus intake to look for any potential interference problems?

[Steve R]

O.K.,
Are those the 804-16 lifters? That would answer my question as to why they are hollow. You are holding it upside down. now I am much less confused.
It says "Requires special work by engine builder" What did you have to do?
Steve
P.S.
I couldn't find your cam in their online catalog. Is it a special grind?

[Venom S]

Tore the engine completely apart Friday night. What I found was not good. The piston skirts are heavily scored from the gunk splashing onto them and then riding up into the cylinders. And you guess it; the cylinder walls are scored as well. Time for new pistons and rings ($$$).

Pulled the rod caps off and the rod journals are OK. Pulled the main caps and all the bearings are damaged, as well as #1, #3, #4, and $5 journals on the crank. It will have to be turned.

The heads are fine. They just require disassembly and cleaning to get the contaminated oil out of everything.

Conclusion

I talked with several engine builders and the consensus is, that high lift mechanical cams require breaking in with just the outer valve spring (remove the inner). This produces less load on the lifters until they are broken in. Even the Comp Cams literature says to do this. I didn't, and now must fork out about $2200 to rebuild my engine. Had I known this going in, I would have selected a different type of cam.

I ordered new pistons and rings today (+.080). This will give me 514 cubic inches. I am going with a hydraulic roller cam AND whatever springs the cam manufacturer suggests.

I should be up and running in about 2-3 weeks.

This has been an expensive lesson for me. If you build a radical engine, and are unsure of anything, ask each part manufacturer what the proper build/break-in process is. I hope no one else has to ever go through this.

I will try and answer the many questions posted by all:

My cam "was" a custom grind mechanical flat tappet.

The pushrods are long (+.100). I didn't know that until this weekend. I should have used 8.550, but used 8.650. Not sure if this could have contributed to my engine failure.

I did not get any special machining instructions with the lifters.

Yes, I should have used springsd recommended by Comp Cams. This could have been a contributing factor, but when I asked Comp Cams if I could use the Edelbrock Springs, they said yes, but went on to say the stock springs were a little light.

Regards
Bill

[Steve R]

Bill,
Are those the 804-16 lifters?
Steve

[Venom S]

Steve-

The lifters are 833-16

I ordered a custom hydraulic roller cam today from Crane Cams. The specs are .636/.636 lift, and 246/250 deg duration @ .050. No special break-in required. Should work well with my modified heads and large displacement.

Bill

[Steve R]

Bill,
Thanks for generously sharing your info with us. There are so many booby traps when playing this game. Make sure you
remove all the oil galley plugs from your block and rifle clean all the passages. Cleanliness is next to godliness.
Steve
P.S. one thing I've learned from this mess is not to hook up the oil cooler until you're. sure the engine is good. Thanks.

[Venom S]

I ordered all the parts necessary to rebuild my engine today.

+.080 pistons and rings from Jeg's
Custom grind hydraulic roller cam from Crane Cams (.636/.636 lift, 246/250 deg duration @ .050)aswell as springs, retainers, and seals
Rollmaster timing chain
Gasket set

I'm debating whether or not I should buy new roller rockers. I'm concerned about the gunk that got into the needle bearings. Suggestions?

Bill

[Steve R]

Bill,
Can you dissect one? It's probably going to be a lot of tedious work to clean them. I guess your financial situation will dictate
if it would be better to just get a new set. I sure wouldn't just slap 'em back in.
Steve

[Lowell W]

Bill,

Very sorry to read the sad saga of your engine problems. Thanks for sharing them with us instead of just keeping the whole thing to yourself.

Best of luck with your new engine.

Lowell

[Venom S]

Thanks guys.

Steve-

I have decided to purchase a new set. Just as a precaution. With so much invested in my engine ($13K), I just can't see taking a short cut.

Bill