Cam Selection

FUNFER2 · #1 (**permalink**) 07-18-2003, 04:19 PM

Heed some opinions on cam selection. Solid or Roller ? A few of my buddies & myself got to together drinking down a few cold ones the other night. These our total gear heads with some racing backgrounds. Drags, sprint & modifieds. I STILL....can't make up my mind ! One said the solids give a great "RUMP" but, the valve train are very noisy. A roller,- a few guys including a engine builder said that after apx. 5,000 mlies on the street, the lifters are shot because the don't like low, street r.p.m's ? I don't really mind adjusting valves. I do want the engine to sound RADICAL !!! Love the "thump" of a bad ass cam & compression. I want to stay at 10:5 compression & pump fuel like I do now. I think I'll be staying with my iron heads, a friend & I will be porting them ect..., he's done many over the last 15 years. He said that he can get them to flow as much as alum. heads. I would buy the Edelbrocks but, with the engine rebuild, I don't think their in the buget by the time I buy the rockers, shafts ect. ? I may buy a rocker & shaft set for $425 for my iron heads. My valves are ok but will need bigger springs for a high lift cam. What do you guys think ?
Thanks,
Kev

Mr.Fixit · #2 (**permalink**) 07-18-2003, 04:39 PM

Best cam selection advise I ever got was this: "One smaller than the one you think you should have."

My hot rod is on cam #5 with the same parts combo, it took me a while to figure out bigger is not better.

FUNFER2 · #3 (**permalink**) 07-18-2003, 05:30 PM

What cube motor & make, type, & numbers is your cam ect..?

CowtownCobra · #4 (**permalink**) 07-18-2003, 05:36 PM

Don't you mean solid or hydraulic? You can have either roller or flat tappets with solid or hydraulic lifters.

George Snyder · #5 (**permalink**) 07-18-2003, 06:51 PM

FENFER 2,

Mr Fix It gave you some good sound advise! I agree 110%.

It is very easy to get cought up in the biggest, badest, during the heat of a performance conversation only to be sorry later. I have seen it happen too many times.

Bud

Tony Radford · #6 (**permalink**) 07-18-2003, 07:04 PM

Kev, I'm in a similar state myself. With regards to a roller cam, my builder told me that the valve spring tension needed to be more than double that of a non-roller which of course throws a far greater load on the push rods. I'm definitely going solid as opposed to my existing hydraulic set up. I agree that the increased frequency of rocker arm adjustments is a bit of an inconvenience, but you can't beat the increased performance at higher RPMs.

CJ428CJ · #7 (**permalink**) 07-18-2003, 07:12 PM

If you love the lumpy idle sound, be sure to go with a cam that has 108 lobe centers rather than 114 or so. In general, the smaller the lobe center angle the worse (more lopey) it will idle.

Brent Mills · #8 (**permalink**) 07-18-2003, 07:45 PM

I'm no expert, but I would tend to agree with Mr Fixit. I'm running cam "16 Crower 16357 Solid 472HP 5500 530TQ 4000 .530/.535Lift 278/284 240/243Duration@50 114". This cam is a step down from my last by Crower, but seems to have more than enough poop, idle's with attitude, and given the lift specs, won't kill the valve train. I thought I might not care for a "smaller" cam, but actually I'm more than happy to this point, and it gives me a lot more confidence in reliability which I would like to have. My 2 cents.

Just saw 428CJ's post, and the cam I'm running is 114 lobe centers, which is part of the reason I didn't think I'd like it, because I thought I wouldn't get that sweet sounding idle....To my surprise it actually sounds fantastic (both the Kirkhams and my builder assured me that I'd like it). Maybe not as mean as some drag car with open headers, but I've gotten a lot of "wow, that sounds incredible" type comments. Dunno if this cam is unique or what, but if your wanting a good street cam, I'm impressed so far.

FUNFER2 · #9 (**permalink**) 08-04-2003, 01:33 PM

Hey Brent, what lifters, springs ect...are you running ? Are they the Crower "kit" with the cam ?
Thanks,
Kev

Brent Mills · #10 (**permalink**) 08-04-2003, 02:14 PM

It was the crower kit. To this point I've been able to put a couple hundred miles on her, and they have been pretty tame. The couple times I have gotten on it (short little burst), the power came on strong. There are certainly more aggressive sounding cams out there, but with free flowing side pipes and idle set right, it sure does sound good!

John A. Simpson · #11 (**permalink**) 08-04-2003, 02:37 PM

The last few issues of Muscle Mustangs and Fast Fords have had engine building articles by David Vizard. He discusses a cam selection service available to anyone for $30-$40 I think. If you're interested I could look up the exact issues with the info. Basically you send your complete car/engine info to these people along with how you want the engine to perform and they spec a cam for you. They don't make or sell the cams they just telll you which one will give you the idle and power you want.

John

FUNFER2 · #12 (**permalink**) 08-04-2003, 03:07 PM

Brent, what compression are you at ? Is this 472 hp & 530 tq with a dyno or estimate ? The next step up is the #16331- solid... Lift-.551/.565- Dur-247/252-Lobe- 108 (not 114) Step up again with # 16462 but the rated RPM is from-3,000-7,000. Too high for the street. How noisy are the solid lifters ? Hood- open/shut standing next to it, then...sitting in the car & driving ?

FUNFER2 · #13 (**permalink**) 08-04-2003, 03:09 PM

John, sounds interesting. Send the infomation when you have time.
Thanks,
Kev

Brent Mills · #14 (**permalink**) 08-05-2003, 12:48 AM

Compression is 10:1. The HP estimates I believe were computer generated with all things being equal except cam. I don't think it necessarily means that's what you'll have (depends on a lot of variables), but it's a good comparison between a bunch of different cams. The one cam higher that I had from crower last time was a bit more radical, but these are light cars, so it really wasn't an issue on the street (although my stupid ass builder told me not to idle it, and two pushrods were broken in 600 miles(never use Jim Green Performance center in Lynwood); don't ask).

Solid lifters make a bit of noise even sitting in the car, but it's all part of the fun of owning a brute of a car. I mean, nothing on these cars is subtle.

John 550 · #15 (**permalink**) 08-08-2003, 04:25 PM

I have crower solid cam 16331 , no problem on the street ( althought I did loop it , I have not driven the same since) !

P.S. I was wondering if some one in the know could tell me what hp and tork this cam brings. Thanks !

FUNFER2 · #16 (**permalink**) 08-09-2003, 08:07 AM

I think it will be the Comp. 294S. With the ported & flowed heads, intake ported , BG 800/850 carb, Tremec five speed and 10:5 compression, this cam should be a good selection. Hopefully I won't have to bore the cylinders again....more $ in pistons !
Thanks,
kev

RICK LAKE · #17 (**permalink**) 08-10-2003, 06:02 AM

Funfer2 Hi Kevin. Couple of things. With whatever cam you put in the motor, make sure the valves DON'T hit the pistons. you need a .120 clearance one and .100 on the other one. You can get a hydro cam with .550"-.560" have a nice loping idle and low maintainance. You can have a roller cam make for your motor. Hydrolic or solid rollors. I have a .501-533. cam in a 452 motor, 9.2-1 compression CNC heads and single plane manifold. my numbers are 340 hp 428 tor. at the rear wheels on a dyno. I can run 13's in the quarter. Car runs great, nice 750 rpm idle with alittle lope. I donot have to pull valve covers every months to lash valves. Are you going racing every weekend??? Save your money, buy the alumium heads put a small cam in it and build another animal motor. 13-1, 700 lift cam, race fuel. Build a tork motor with 500-500 lbs, this is all the car will work with. Car wieghts 2500 lbs. You need to go for a drive in someone elses car with and ask about how much maintainance is needed. Bigger is not always better.

sometimes small is just RIGHT. Rick Lake

FUNFER2 · #18 (**permalink**) 08-11-2003, 05:07 PM

Bigger isn't better ! hehe!
Anyway, I'm a pit crew member on a 360 winged sprint car (roller motor) so I don't mind setting valves. We started the season checking them after race & have only had to lash them like three times in 18 shows. The owner/driver had a soild cam (around 650 lift) in a drag car & said he didn't have to adjust them much. If I wanted a moderate street motor & traveld alot,I would probably go with a hydo cam. If, I had the time & MONEY, I'de go full roller (at twice the cost) but, Z wife would have a tizzy-fit ! (she already is anyway) It wouldn't be such a problem but, the engine only has like under a 1,000miles on it. She thinks it will be like this every year now. (maybe that's good) hehe! I'm having a guy port & go thru the heads for chump change (a sprint car buddy) he's done heads, manifold ect. for 20 years & says he can get the irons to flow close to alum's. I want to keep the heads & block for bragging rights, (I bought it from Shelby last year. He built it for a customers real Cobra & rapped the car around a gas pole, he got the motor back & has had it ever since) if I didn't, I would have built a cheaper 460 motor.
Thanks,
Kev

CowtownCobra · #19 (**permalink**) 08-11-2003, 05:50 PM

Did you say that Gashole wrapped it around a Gaspole? hehe...

BTW, what the heck is a Gaspole anyway...

FUNFER2 · #20 (**permalink**) 08-11-2003, 07:33 PM

hehe! ya, 2-1/2 months after Shelby delivered the car, he wrapped it around a natural gas pole in southern Ca., and by Lord.......it did not go BOOM !!! The driver was ok but, the car was trash.



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