Motor smokes

exrodder · #1 (**permalink**) 08-03-2003, 10:21 AM

My car has been on the road for the past month and I have 50o miles on it. It doesn't smoke on start up or running down the road that is noticable but when I stop at a red light or stop sign and sit and let it idle, smoke comes out the pipes. It doesn't smoke from the same side every time, one time left, one time right. I took valve covers off to see if oil returns were blocked and they seem clear. The engine is 390 with restricters under the rocker stand as I was told to do. Local machine shop did head work and said that the guides were ok but now I wonder. Any ideas. I was told that maybe oil is getting sucked in around bottom of intake gasket, but car idles fine. The oil is evident on plugs 1 & 6 with 1 being the worst. Ran the hell out of motor after machine shop said moter"probably" didn't have enough miles on it. Have built other motors and no problem. After running car in 2nd gear from 3500 to 5000 for 5 miles, came to stop sign, stopped, took off with no smoke. But, stopped, idles for around 20 seconds and it started to smoke out left side more than right. Next time I ran car, smokes out right morte than left. What gives. Help!!! Realloy embarrasing !!!!

exrodder

RICK LAKE · #2 (**permalink**) 08-03-2003, 08:28 PM

exrodder 2 things come to mind, valve stem seals are damaged on assembly of the heads. If you have a compressor put air in the cylinder and replace the seals for these to cylinders. Do a compression test on all 8 cylinders, if the rings are not install right you could suck the oil up though them. Do you have a pvc valve on the motor? What is the vacuum on the motor at idle? Poor valve guides could be the other choise. Pull the heads and have the guides miked and checked for rock or out of round. Are you sure that it is oil and not fuel fouled? What color is the smoke? Black is fouling plugs and blue is burning oil smoke normally. Start with the basics, what color that we go from there. Does the car have a miss or shake when this happens? Get back to us. Rick Lake

exrodder · #3 (**permalink**) 08-03-2003, 09:43 PM

Heads were done by local machine shop who did rest of machine work on motor along with new seals. They said guides were ok, but since then, I have run into 2 other people who had heads done there and they had smoking problem. They had them redone and were fine after that. Thes were chevy heads though.
It isn't consistent though. One time it's left side, then next is right, but mostly right. Just enough that it is annoying when sitting at lite. It is oil as smoke is blue and there is deposit on plugs. Some one else said rocker arms shaft that is upside down will do this also. this is my first FE motor so don't know what to look for.
Was also told that intake may be leaking but car idles ok. Did restrictor thing in head before it was assembled. No smoke on start up, just after running and coming to stop at lite.

Bill Wells · #4 (**permalink**) 08-04-2003, 04:27 AM

maybe dumb on my part, as i am sure you have done this : but is carb set too rich at idle..maybe it is something easy as that . i saw one where guy claimed carb was set up perfectly but alas, they adjusted the idle screw only and NOT all 4 corners. when 4 corners were adjusted, each was out 1-1/2 turns and should have been at 3/4 when it was done right. til then, smoke at idle ,intermittently one side then the other and car ran fine at speed, but smoked at idle. i am sure you have done that, but pass it on in case it was overlooked. bill

RICK LAKE · #5 (**permalink**) 08-04-2003, 05:34 AM

exrodder Blue is oil if this is the color. It sound like extra clearance in the guides and the valve is bending and sucking the oil into the chamber. Send heads out for repair and tell them you want the specs on valve clearance first. Buy a set of Edelbrock alum heads. Fix the old heads. Send them to George anderson at Guessford machine. You know that he will do you right. I can give you the blueprinted numbers for the valve play. I don't have them right now but if you want them I will dig them up. I think they make oversize valves for your heads. .003-.005.-.015 or at least they used too. Stay in touch. Rick Lake

exrodder · #6 (**permalink**) 08-04-2003, 10:16 AM

Thanks for the info and the ideas. I'm going to put up with it for the rest of the driving season and then tear it out and down to see what I can find. I like driving it too much to let it sit when it's nice out. I appreciate all the replys. I want to be able to take it to the Americruise East show that is coming to Bloomsburg, Pa. on the 15th - 17th of this month. I promised the announcer for the show that I would take him for a ride as he has sold his 40 pro street Ford pickup and is starting to look around for his cobra.
I want to make sure he gets hooked. Don't think it will take much as he has watched the progress on my car.
Again thanks for the replys. Maybe I'll get to meet some of you
somewhere, sometime.

Tom

B. SMITH · #7 (**permalink**) 08-04-2003, 11:26 AM

CHECK THE INTAKE MANIFOLD GASKETS EVEN IF IDLE IS OK.

WHEN YOU REMOVE THEM CAREFULY, YOU MIGHT SEE THE PLACE WHERE THE SEEPING TAKES PLACE. SOMETIMES THE ANGLE ON HEADS ARE MISMATCHED WITH INTAKE'S ANGLE.

FIRST CHECK THE TORQUE ON THE INTAKE. IT MIGHT SOLVE EVERYTHING, ESPECIALLY IF INTAKE BOLTS NEAR THE SUSPICIOUS CYLINDERS ARE NEEDING TO BE RE-TORQUED.

THERE ARE HEAVY DUTY THICKER INTAKE GASKETS THAT MAY SAVE YOU A TRIP TO THE MACHINE SHOP IF THE MISMATCHED ANGLES AREN'T TOO GREAT.

GOOD LUCK, B. SMITH

B. SMITH · #8 (**permalink**) 08-04-2003, 11:45 AM

CHECK THE INTAKE MANIFOLD GASKETS EVEN IF IDLE IS OK.

WHEN YOU REMOVE THEM CAREFULY, YOU MIGHT SEE THE PLACE WHERE THE SEEPING TAKES PLACE. SOMETIMES THE ANGLE ON HEADS ARE MISMATCHED WITH INTAKE'S ANGLE.

FIRST CHECK THE TORQUE ON THE INTAKE. IT MIGHT SOLVE EVERYTHING, ESPECIALLY IF INTAKE BOLTS NEAR THE SUSPICIOUS CYLINDERS ARE NEEDING TO BE RE-TORQUED.

THERE ARE HEAVY DUTY THICKER INTAKE GASKETS THAT MAY SAVE YOU A TRIP TO THE MACHINE SHOP IF THE MISMATCHED ANGLES AREN'T TOO GREAT.

GOOD LUCK, B. SMITH

exrodder · #9 (**permalink**) 08-05-2003, 10:35 AM

B. Smith,
Upper end just went back together today and will fire up tomorrow. I had taken off intake to check just that thing. Friend said that maybe the cork gaskets were holding intake up enough and not letting bottom seal around one of the ports. Hope that is problem. Going to run it even if I have a small smoke problem at idle. Just can't stop at lites and idle. I wonder if THAT excuse will fly with law enforcement ?

Tom

RallySnake · #10 (**permalink**) 08-05-2003, 11:32 AM

Tom,

As a temporaty fix, you might try Engine Restore. It's in a silver can at the auto parts store. You don't have to put the whole can in. Just enough to stop the problem. I once ran a 1000 mile rally with an engine that had way too much blow by. The Engine Restore got us through just fine. When I pulled the engine apart, I found a broken second ring on number 8 piston.

I would avoid STP or any other oil thickener. They make the engine parts very sticky when you do take it apart.

Paul

B. SMITH · #11 (**permalink**) 08-05-2003, 05:35 PM

YOU DIDN'T SAY IF THE INTAKE WAS DONE WITH THE HEADS.

IF YOUR SHOP MILLED THE HEADS AND DID NOT MACHINE THE MATING SURFACES AT THE INTAKE, THE SURFACES ARE MIS-MATCHED.

MANY ENGINE MYSTERIES ARE CAUSED BY THIS ERROR.

B. SMITH

Excaliber · #12 (**permalink**) 08-05-2003, 05:45 PM

Vacuum is highest under idle and DECELLERATION. If indeed you are seeing smoke at idle and/or decelleration your pulling oil in from some where.

Decellerate, come to a stop, and that deep vacuum sucked in the oil your seeing while you sit idling. Trying coasting to a stop with the clutch in and see what happens.

Ernie

EDIT: Vacuum is near zero under hard accelleration!

edwhite7 · #13 (**permalink**) 08-10-2003, 08:35 PM

I agree with the intake gasket. When you pulled the heads did the gasket come off easily or was it stuck to the head and intake? If it came off easily it was the gaskets. I have had the same problem with Alum block and heads, it is very hard to get the gasket to seal and it usually shows up after about 50 miles but usually causes a slight change in the idle due to the vacuum leak. I have heard that Gessford Machine sells an intake gasket, not felpro, that is less prone to this and I will try them the next time my intake is off. I have been over torqueing the center three intake bolts and this stops the problem for me. I don't mess with the corner bolts because extra torque on them seems to crush the gasket. I don't have a number but I just add a little extra until the problem goes away. If you have Alum heads like I do be careful that you have a lot of thread in the head.

thundercat · #14 (**permalink**) 08-11-2003, 07:55 PM

I use the gaskets from Gessford Machine..They work real well.. Victor Reinz 95159SG These match my Edelbrock 72cc Alum heads.. Steve McD

aumoore · #15 (**permalink**) 08-11-2003, 09:26 PM

Are you running molly rings? I had a Boss 351 motor that did exactly the same thing for about 2000 Miles. Smoke from one side one time then the other sides at other times. The rings would not set very quick because of the type of rings the builder used. After about 2000 miles it stopped. Ran like a scalded dog but it was not fouling plugs.

If it is running fine other than the smoke then I would put at least 1500 to 2000 miles on it before tearing it apart. Make sure you do not just run at one speed all the time. You need to put the motor under different loads accelerating and decelerating.

What type of oil are you using? Break it in with straight 30 weight and do not use synthetics until it has at least 3000 miles on it.

exrodder · #16 (**permalink**) 08-11-2003, 11:14 PM

Got intake back on and still same problem. Going to take your advice on putting more miles on it before I panic any more. There is too much summer left to be taking it apart and letting it sit. Just run the heck out of it and hope it goes away. How long have you had your Hunter on road ? I can't say enough about the Hunter crew in Ocala. They have been really nice people to deal with.

Tom

RICK LAKE · #17 (**permalink**) 08-12-2003, 05:54 AM

exrodder Tom I have 2 ideas. Go out and get 2 intake gasket sets. and High tack them together. High tack both sides of the graskets and assembly and tork to spec. Before you do this, try a pep boys or auto zone and ask for leak dye checker. If they don't have it try matco tool man or Snap on. They have a kit for 65.00$ Run the motor and put the dye in it. Idle it till it smokes good. Turn it off and pull the intake, look for the stain with the black lite. It will show up inside the manifold runners if the oil is leaken it or around the valves if coming down through the valve guides. Was the angles checked on the heads and manifold to see if they are correct to seal properly. Does your motor have low tension oil piston rings? They maynot be seated yet. Good luck Rick Lake

aumoore · #18 (**permalink**) 08-12-2003, 07:07 AM

On the road for over two years. Haven't been able to enjoy much due to all the liquid sunshine in Florida.

Run that pig FE motor and keep putting oil in it. So what if it smokes as long as it runs fine keep putting in oil and run it. Give the old boy a chance to break in and see what happens.

Paul Sutphen · #19 (**permalink**) 08-12-2003, 08:40 AM

In reading the thread, I do not see any suggestion about whether or not you are running a PCV valve connected to the intake. I had an oil consumption/smoke problem like yours and disconnected the darn thing and problem was solved. Now I run atmospheric venting of engine via breathers in valve covers and rear intake manifold.
Paul

Woodz428 · #20 (**permalink**) 08-12-2003, 11:57 AM

When you had the heads done again, you didn't say what the seals were like. If you are running a higher lift cam they could be getting distorted at full lift by the retainer and causing oil to be sucked by on decel and idle. Intake area (as mentioned) is also a good possibilty.



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