How much $$$ 427 alloy shelby - Page 2

SCOBRAC · #21 (**permalink**) 08-26-2003, 04:13 PM

funny I have over 16.5k in a "used" iron engine.

kanuck · #22 (**permalink**) 08-26-2003, 04:41 PM

Thanks Rick for stepping up to the plate.
The question was how much for an alloy engine not how much for they ULTIMATE alloy engine.
thanks Dean

RICK LAKE · #23 (**permalink**) 08-26-2003, 05:09 PM

kanuck Hi Dean If you go to swap meets, make deals with people looking to sell parts and can dicker on price you can buy alot of new parts cheap. I have 8 lemans rods new in boxes c9zz-6200a 375.00 8 new pistons 428 trw replacements .005 over 300.00 with sprials springs new in boxes. Study and get books that list what you need and go from there. The Shelby block and head bolts where 5 grand. the heads where 2850.00 with the CNC work. my crank was a 10-10 crank indexed and crecked for cracks. FFP in Cali. The rest was dickering with sellers at swap meets and car shows. Act like you don't want it. Get a price and walk away. come back 50$ cheaper or 75$ on Sunday, nobody wants to take it home with them and the strongest tool in the world is cash inhand waving. Have the exact money to give. NO CHANGE. This is the only tip I will give you

Good luck Rick Lake

Jamo · #24 (**permalink**) 08-26-2003, 05:13 PM

The question was how much for a Shelby Aluminum-based motor.

Well, the threadstarter certainly didn't ask for an [un]educated guess by someone playing with numbers, kunick.

With all due respect, I'm not sure what Rick has offered up since his sig refers to a 428. If it is an aluminum block, smart shopping may very well have resulted in a great deal--and doing it yourself does save quite a bundle. Realistic? That's for the buyer to determine based upon the approach he or she wishes to take. There are variances all over the place.

Pat noted Shelby's stated price for a complete motor.

Bill commented on realistic labor costs, and noted the quandry one might have in putting certain parts in a motor with basic costs already being significant.

JBaird's (the only builder to respond--many thanks) price for a Shelby stroked motor is not substantially different than what I laid out.

And I know George at Gessford is in the same ballpark for the Shelby-block motors.

Ultimate motor--oh hell no! They cost a whole bunch more. Mine is just a good build. Set forth the specifics because I got tired of the wide range of guesses I've seen prooffered everytime somebody asks about this.

FWIWAFYA/BM

Jamo · #25 (**permalink**) 08-26-2003, 05:26 PM

Rick

Our replies were close in time. Good for you. Your efforts paid off for you!

mrmustang · #26 (**permalink**) 08-26-2003, 05:33 PM

On top of what Rick stated, before you buy pistons, be sure you already have the block in hand..........Having a really nice set of 5 over pistons will not work well if you have to go 10 over to clean up your cylinder walls. Same goes for a crank, rods, and just about anything else in the reciprocating assembly. heads are a matter of choice, but what ever you choose must be matched to the pistons for proper compression ratio..........Finally, let's not forget the hardened valve seats, port work to get original heads to breath (or even new heads right out of the box, which at times need a lot of work no matter what the literature states), or even match from one head to another..........

Bill S.

Jamo · #27 (**permalink**) 08-26-2003, 05:40 PM

Bill (aka Sweetness)

Boy, you soitenly hit the nail on the head re the heads--even new ones. Amazing what a little work can do to an already great set of Edelbrocks for flow.

mrmustang · #28 (**permalink**) 08-26-2003, 05:50 PM

Jamo,

We had a set of aluminum 351W heads come in, fresh out of the boxes from the manufacturer (when I was still at the speed shop) that were not even close to production dates from one to the other. The castings were so far off, that we spent several hours getting the two to flow the same...........People think that just because these items are brand new, that they do not need to be worked over by a professional to get them "just right"...Same goes for valve pocket porting, swirling, etc. This does not even touch on the basics of building a reliable lower end of a motor, just an overbore does not do it. Cleaning it out, line boring, honing, matching piston rings, chamfering, stress relieving, opening up the oil passages, etc and so forth.. Damn, I can go on and on with this, and I'm not even a trained mechanic (nor do I play one on television) or engine builder, yet I still know the importance of doing it right the first time. The last thing you want to do is have to pull the engine out of the car once it's installed because you decided to cut corners and take chances with fitment or parts matching..................Especially with a FE motor...................Even small mistakes can be costly ones..............................

Yours In Fords,

Bill S.

mrmustang · #29 (**permalink**) 08-26-2003, 05:54 PM

Almost forgot,

I do not play sweetness on TV either!!!

Bill S.

Lew Ledyard · #30 (**permalink**) 08-26-2003, 07:54 PM

Jamo is right on target with regard to price. There is a little fluctuation depending on builders and options. I looked around and went with Southern for many reasons, one of them being a reasonable price. I didn't stray too far from standard (I went with their stroker kit for its stronger rods) and ended up around $22k for a single carbie motor. Not nearly as fancy as David K's motor.

JBAIRD · #31 (**permalink**) 08-27-2003, 06:25 AM

Let me help you guys out: Genesis Aluminum blocks will proably in all liklihood never happen. Tim has gone Bankrupt, a new Co. has bought him out and they are supposed to do another run of blocks. We bought 25 of them on the very first run. This is when we were charging $3099 for a block. We have sold all the blocks that we had. Built some 25 Fe motors with them and they are awesome. The new Co. is telling us that they are going up on these blocks to 3999.00. Our cost. Well now we are starting to get near the cost of the Al. Shelby blocks. I can tell all of you right now that a Nameless person is currently working with a Casting Foundry and will be producing new Iron Sideoiler blocks in the near future. I can also tell you that Blue Thunder is about to come out with a Med. Riser head for the FE. Good things coming ,so be patient. Drew Baird/Keith Craft Motorsports. (972) 578-3550.

cobra_dude · #32 (**permalink**) 08-27-2003, 08:34 AM

Thanks to everyone who has spent the time and posted a reply.
There seems to be so many choices for the FE it boggles the mind!
adrian

GEORGE ANDERSON · #33 (**permalink**) 08-29-2003, 10:41 PM

Drew...I'm astonished that you spend so much time mentioning Gessford Machine. You build more FE's than anyone in the country and that's great...your motors are very well built...no one really questions that. Back on 5/9 someone asked about who builds the best engines and five nice people mentioned Gessford Machine as a possible source and your post was as follows.

"Try Keith Craft, He builds more rompin stompin FE's than anybody in the country. They are the only ones that have 7 National NHRA records with their FE's. I'm surprised that all you guys think Gessford is the only Guru for Fe's. Ever heard of Kountz and Craft. Jim Kuntz and Keith Craft. Probably know more about Fe's than any one else in the Country."

We are certainly not Keith Kraft or any of the other great companies you mentioned....but I was wondering how you can actually post something like this on Club Cobra

"We do more FE motors in the Country(Yes, more than Gessford)."

You have absolutely no idea what we do here in Hastings Nebraska...I can guarantee you we have no intention of ever trying to be the largest producers of FE engines..nore will we ever hold 7 NHRA records....in fact I'm damn lucky to win something at the Run & Gun when I go there.....
But I can offer much advice on how the engines work in Cobras and many of the little things people need completed to make their projects easier......not too many of my customers are looking to hold NHRA records...they mainly want a reliable engine and someone to help with the questions they have.....this is what we try to do....
I love driving my Cobra and am very proud of the FE engines our customers allow us to build for them.....

So, if you would leave Gessford out of your posts I'd certainly be willing to admit your Bigger, Better and more knowledgeable about all FE engines...
End of post....
Regards,
George Anderson

JBAIRD · #34 (**permalink**) 08-30-2003, 06:34 AM

George, Don't be astonished, be greatful that you are mentioned so frequently in posts. We are certainly not slamming or knocking you in any way. Your reputation is Sterling in the industry, and as far as we are concerned , no need to fence about quality of work. We are simply trying to let folks know that FE motors can be built for much less money than people are spending. Also, the so called Guru's are leaving alot of power on the table because of the poor head work being performed and insufficient knowledge overall about FE's. We also feel that many of the machining prices that are being charged are rediculous and the prices of these aluminum motors are unbelievable. We are making more of a presence than before in this market because our reputation is also tops and we are going to put more Top quality FE's in the publics hands than ever before. George, we wish you and your staff the very best, and we thank you for being one of the good shops by which all others are judged. Drew .

PatBuckley · #35 (**permalink**) 08-30-2003, 06:39 AM

George-

When you are the standard by which others are judged it means that you are at the top - congratulations!

While I can only say that I have performed some maintenence service on your engines - I CAN say that everything I have seen has been done to perfection.

I don't think I have ever heard anyone say that they have had ANY trouble with one of your engines - quite a statement!

Perhaps when the other engine builder reaches your level they won't need to build themselves up by comparing themselves to you.

Thanks also for all the time you take to answer questions from people who in some cases aren't even your customers...

Pat Buckley

RICK LAKE · #36 (**permalink**) 08-30-2003, 09:11 AM

George Anderson Let the others talk. Your friendliness and knowledge speaks for itself. You where right on the lifters. I'm a putz. I have watched you race at the Run&Gun every year when you went since 95. While your car is always fast and you cheat with an automatic,

I have never seen it break. You pound the car to it's limit, get as much track time as you can. Drag race to set your sandbagging times up

, all which are in the 11's and maybe a tenth apart. Your car is solid. Now to the other things. Some people had problems with distributor gears being chewed up in the shelby, You where 1 of the first that I heard had the fix for it. Poris heads that suck oil. You fixede a set of heads from A top builder who probablity had a trainie to the work on porting, over cut the port on the intake and when the motor expanded it sucked oil into the #6 cylinder. The pushrod hole was fixed 2 times before you repaired it. It's still holding fine. I am not bad mouthing anyones work. 95% of these car have the crap beat out of them everytime the key is turned. Georges motors will only win awards at Run&Gun and other races of this nature. The motors hold up well. I have talked to Kuntz on the phone, If I was going for NHRA records I would send him my motor and 40Grand to build it. I don't know Keith Craft so I can only say he builds FE motors and have heard nothing bad about them in the circle of people I know. There are 2 others who build motors that I have seen racing that motor changes are common with. Rods out side of blocks, holes in oil pans, pushrods through the bottom of pans, Hard racing has something to do with this but not every year the same problem. The next motor I get built will be a Gessford motor. The record speaks for itself. Thanks George for the good time and info you have given me on my motor. The cobra and the FE motor are making a comeback, They are not going away. To all the FE builders, This is a small world we live in and the computor makes it smaller. You are all in the people bussiness and producing a product. The smart people read up on the problems some people have with there motors and if the same name keeps coming up, you are going to lose out on work. Many FE builders have gone the way of the Dinasour. I hope that the ones still doing this will be around for the next 50 years.

George in your case 40 years than you can retire

. My 2 cents Thanks again George for the help. Rick Lake

JBAIRD · #37 (**permalink**) 08-30-2003, 07:13 PM

George, Just another post to say thank you for the element that you bring to the industry and to our Cobra family as well. We are in no way suggesting that you or any of your staff are unprofessional or do shoddy workmanship. In fact we all know quite the opposite is true, and I also know what kind of genuine person you are. We met at Run N Gun about 4 years ago and you were gracious and Kind to me as well. I have made reference to Gessford machine in a past post only to compare and contrast with a quality Fellow FE Builder and a reputable shop. Keep up the Great work and please accecpt the appology if we hurt you in any way. The reference was in NO way intended for malice or boastfulness , only that of reputable comparison. My most humble appologies Sir. God bless, Drew Baird.

Keithc8 · #38 (**permalink**) 08-31-2003, 10:21 PM

I have never posted much on here but we are getting a lot of request for cobra engines. Because of our buying power we can sell most any part at the same price or below as Summit and Jegs. We are doing all alm engines of the dyno with carburator to canton oil pan with msd dist. and wires, Edelbrock water pump, Ford Racing valve covers and all new parts for 17,500.00. These engines will produce about 600HP and 550ft.lbs. tourqe on pump gas. We can build to suite any of your needs and build you a single 4 barrel FE that will make 850HP if you would like. I don,t believe there is anyone out there that can deliver the horsepower for the bucks that we can. We will also build any other style Fe engine you want. Just finished a 427 plus .030, 10.2 to 1, Ford steel C7AE heads with a police interceptor intake and a hydralic roller that made 530 ft.lbs and 540HP and idled at 700RPM's. Just a matter of the right parts and the right machine work with the proper assembly. We dyno test and tune all engines to make sure they are good before they leave the shop. Good luck with your project. Also we will provide Shelby alm. blocks machined for 5250.00 ready to assemble. Thanks Keith Craft

Turk · #39 (**permalink**) 08-31-2003, 10:30 PM

Keith C,
If you would like to make your engines and your services available to Club Cobra membership, I suggest you contact Brent Mills, the owner of this website and purchase a Banner ad.

The club welcomes pres releases and news from vendors who have something to offer. Anything beyond that needs to be a paid advertisement.

TURK
CLUB COBRA MODERATOR

LateApex · #40 (**permalink**) 08-31-2003, 10:38 PM

The best thing is, one of the best FE builders, if not the best, and I believe a Run and Gun winner, hasn't even joined the chat.



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