What the heck???

[GEORGE ANDERSON]

Brent....let's see if we can get Rich Lacy to pick up your car....
can you get some digitals for us to review...rockers, pushrods etc
George

[Brent Mills]

This is the oil I poured from the filter. Swirled it around with my finger, and it streaks with a silverish tint.


Further inspection of the rocker adjusters/cups on the driver side indicate a difference in wear or cup depth. I can put on push rod in it's corresponding cup and it spins freely, and that same push rod in another cup and it either doesn't spin freely, or sits further down in the cup, as if the cup is deeper. Now, when I first got them, it appeared that all the push rods sat in the cups much higher, although I can't be absolutely certain of that.

Even so, is the cup being worn because the lash keeps getting to wide and it's pounding, or is the lash getting wider because the cups are stretching/deepening....That is the question.

I didn't find any pieces of metal anywhere in the head or around the rockers, although looking at the holes in the cups, it appears that they are not perfect holes as I believe they once were. There was no loose metal that I could see, but the holes are definately not smoothly drilled holes anymore.

In the filter, there was some very very thin shiny metal flakage, but nothing sizable.

Oh, did I tell you my very understanding wife is about to kill me?

[Brent Mills]

The other thing is that with the old rockers (harland Sharp), while I did break a push rod cup, the other rockers were not clattering like crazy at that point or any other, which might point to the new rockers being the culprit. Geeesh.

[PatBuckley]

I bet I know what the problem is.

Brent tell me what your pushrod ball and cup sizes are...as well as the sizes of the corresponding areas of your lifters and rocker arms.

I am betting that your have a 5/16" ball on the rocker and a 3/8 cup on the pushrod, or a 5/16" cup in the lifter and a 3/8" ball on the pushrod......

Pat

[Brent Mills]

They are ball/ball pushrods....The rockers have adjusters with cups. The size I'm not exactly certain, but they should be a match. The fella at Precision Oil Pumps indicated that they are the right ones. I'll upload some pics, although not too good.

[Brent Mills]

See the photogallery for pic updates.

[427 S/O]

Brent try this, clean the balls and cups and coat either one with a 'magic marker', put the ball in the cup and twist, keep it perpendicular, then see if you have anything close to even contact.

[Eljaro]

Brent,
SCOBRAC has the same rockers as you have He might give you some hints as to the correct pushrod size. But in case of a missmatch of ball and adjuster cup, both are hardened and should wear out slower than appears to happen in your case.
Unless of course the adjuster is not hardened or not done correctly and wearing off. Look at how the adjuster cup is worn. Nice shiny all around or with rough spots somewhere.
I hope this is what is wrong, because its an easy fix.
The other culprit could still be your cam.
And that is another matter.
Good luck again !
Steve

[GEORGE ANDERSON]

Brent....how did you establish the overall length to use and did he explain which end goes to the rocker and which end to the lifter...the ends look like a different design....what were the instrustions with the kit from Precision Oil Pumps?

George

[Brent Mills]

George, he knows which heads I have, as well as the fact that he supplied the stands, etc. Given that, he provides the push rods at proper length I guess....I'm guessing there, but I believe that's how he knows which ones to supply.

As for the ends, one definately fits in the lifter cup, and the other being smaller fits into the rocker cup. Instructions? I know none of the pushrods are hitting the manifold holes and everything seems to be pretty well lined up.

[427 S/O]

If everything checks out OK, set the lash at TOC. Seems you've tried everything else!.
Good luck........

[trularin]

Gee Brent, with all the replies to your problem, you may not get a chance to try everything.

Since the valve train has been adjusted multiple times, I do not think the cam bearings are going bad.

You may want to pull the lifters and put a set of presoaked, pretested, out-of-a-test-engine, regular lifters and adjust down to stock settings to get the engine running and without events.

After it has been running, try adding a lifter. See if it, by itself works in your setup.

With all these variables, it is going to be very hard to pinpoint a problem.

Get to a working base and work with one variable at a time. It may take a while, but you should be able to isolate the overall problem.

I hope this helps.

Trularin

[PatBuckley]

Brent - always check things for yourself. I had a tech rep from Crane Cams give me wrong information on a set of their roller lifters - he sounded believable too.

[leslie.files]

Hi guys, I just happened to notice this thread and had to ask a question. Do you have screw in studs or press in type? If they are pressed in than the lift on the cam may be pulling them out of the bosses slightly or maybe the studs are weak and stretching. Just a thought to maybe help.

[leslie.files]

I seem to be having a problem posting today, but here goes anyway. I have a question aboutr the heads. Do you have screw in studs or the pressed in type? sometimes the lift on the cam will slightly pull the studs from the bosses. When I was racing I ran across weak screw in studs that stretched considerable and then broke off at the boss. Don't know if this helps, hope it does!

[RICK LAKE]

Brent Mills How are we doing?? I'm about ready to fly out there and take a look for myself. Give that motor to George and buy the old one back. Only kidding. We are missing something. 25 guys with expert knowledge and we can't figure out what is going on??? I am not sure but your cam is only a little bigger than mine. I would think that it would have hydru lifters. I am looking at a 533-566 cam with hydro lifters. I just think that your cam could be a hydro that was made or boxed wrong. It has happened. I know you can not put a hydro cam with solid lifters, the ramps get worn down faster because of the wrong hardness of the lobes and bottom of the lifter. I have read that you have to plug the oil galleys for the different cams. Not sure which ones. The pictures show that the coating on a couple of the rockers where the pushrod sit looked rubbed. You have replaced the top end, rockers,shafts,pushrods,and stands. Problem is still there. Call the cam company and see if they will give you a number on the cam end to see if it is right. I would try this first. Good luck Rick Lake

[Ron61]

Rick,

I am sure the hydraulic lifters require more oil and that you plug the galleys if changing to a solid cam. I also THINK, not sure that a roller cam has steeper ramps than a flat tappet type. I am not sure if Brent has roller lifters or not, but I had wondered if the cam was the wrong one. However as many times as he has had this problem I figured they had checked on this.

Ron

[RICK LAKE]

Ron61 Hi Ron Without the numbers off the cam he could have the wrong cam shaft. The hardness of the lobes could be different. He has looked at almost everything else. I though he have solid lifters no rollers. You can run a solid lifter cam with hydrolic lifters but will damage the cam and the lifters. A friend of mine did this, thought he was smart, the motor lasted 800 miles. The cam and lifter were wornout and torn up from the miss match. A roller cam has sharper openings and closing of the valves, that is the need for roller or shubeck lifters to work with this kind of cam. I know the Rockwell is different for the different styles of cams. He has pictures in his gallery, it looks like metal filings but is hard to tell. If he pulls the cam he can check the cam bearings and take a better look at the cam wear. This kind of problem is just a pain in the $SS. He will fix it. Hopefully soon. Rick Lake

[decooney]

Brent,

- how do the bushings look on each of your new rockers?

[misfit41]

Hi ,
I am not thatversed on the new tech stuff,it has been 20 years since I helped my racer buddy with his 427's,I remeber this though,he would trust me to assemble the engine,but never adjust the valves,I recall him saying the only way to get them right is with the motor running,and thats how he did it,,oil and all, that was with oem rockers,but we ran hell out of the 427's then on alcohol and I never remember losing any part of the valve train,plenty of cylinders with the 14-1 ration though,,lol
for what it's worth,,Tk