Hydraulic Roller Camshafts

[GregN]

Hello,

Does anyone have any experience using Hyd Roller Cams?

I am think about using them in my next engine. I know they do not rev as high as the solid roller cams. I have heard a lot of great things about them. (Mfg's web pages)

Greg

[RICK LAKE]

GregN Fillin the blanks, What motor? Heads? What are you going to do with the car?? Autocross, 1/4 mile, Roadracing, Hydro are good for about 6500 rpm what's your rpm range? How much power are you looking for?? How much maintance work are you looking to do every weekend? Daily driver?? Come on Greg tell us a story. Rick Lake

[hound dog]

Greg,
Actually it's a pretty carefree setup. Just as maintenance free as a flat tappet hydraulic lifter setup. Also has the same rpm limitations, but you can get a much more aggressive cam lobe profile. I'm using a Lunati roller setup and have had no problems. Do it!
h dog

[CJ428CJ]

I spoke to someone running a Crane hydraulic roller in a 351. He said he couldn't rev it past about 5800 rpms. He was preparing to switch to a solid roller cam. As I understand it the lifters are very heavy. As a result very high valve spring pressures are needed. At high rpms the high valve spring pressures cause the lifters to bleed down or collapse thus limiting your power at those higher rpms. Roller cams are great because of the more aggressive cam lobes but I'm under the impression that hydraulic rollers are not nearly as aggressive in general as sold rollers. Because of the above concerns and the significant added expense of a roller cam, I went with a solid flat tappet cam.

Chris

[Sizzler]

I'm using one in an FE

Don't expect to be revving past 6K or so (and at that you'll need some lightweight valvetrain components).

I have an automatic so I'm not too concerned with the higher rpm range.

Great cam in my opinion, which of course isn't worth a lot.

I use the smaller Crane cam.

[GregN]

Rick,
I plan on using the car/engine for 95% of the time for street use and 5% of the time for open track road racing.

Block-Shelby Aluminum , Heads-Shelby or Edelbrock.
I want to drive the car not work on it every weekend. I am hoping for around 500-550 hp. Reline at 6000-6500.

I was hoping for some who had an engine like the I am going to build to tell me about what they had learned.

Thank You,

Greg

[RobMcQuarie]

Gregg,
Your post caught my interest as we have been using/testing the Hyd Roller set ups in the FE's for a couple of years now and it has been a learning curve.

They make great power below 6000, wide torque curves. But, they need to be set up right, very specific spring pressures, oil types, push rods, titanium retainers or 11/32" valves, etc. Just finished one in a Shelby alum block, 4.250 stroke, ported heads, 2-4V dual plane. Large custom grind HydRoller, power peaked at 550hp@5700, and 560tq@4600. Had 510ft/lbs+ from 2500-5800. This dyno is quite accurate and tends to read on the low side compaired to some, so it is going to be a beast to drive. For comparison, dynoe'd a 427 Alum w/4.250 stroke we had built a few weeks before that, but with more compression, Tunnelwedge 2-4V, and a slightly larger mechanical roller that made 610hp, but it was at 6700rpm. So the hyd made very good power, but at a 1000rpm less, very nice for all around use.
Rob

[ENTDOC]

Talk to thre guys at Keith Craft racing,they are building Shelby alum. block motors with roller cams. chuck

[Keithc8]

We have been using the hydraulic roller camshafts for some time now. They are a great up-grade from the std hydraulic camshaft, they have no break in problems, no loss lobes later on. They will turn higher than a std hydraulic camshaft and make great power. We have played with several different lobe designs and have some that work better for higher rpm's if needed. We find that these best hydralic rollers will start fallin g of at 6500 to 6600. This also depends on the valve weight, retainer weight and the design of the lobe as well as how much lift it has. We have made over 600HP with the FE strokers that we do with a single 4bl and pump gas. We use a lot of these in the small block strokers we do and have had great success with them there as well. We can get you the camshaft done for 259.00 and the only company that is making a lifter right now is Crane and they are 459.00. If you want to put a lot of miles on your engine and do not want to adjust valves this is a great way to go. Keith

[Jack21]

Using a CompCams hydraulic roller in a 351W. Love it, no problems, and maintenance free. A lot more torque than standard hydraulic. I did use the Comp valvesprings with the kit, and steel ProMagnum roller rockers. Motor has been buzzed to 6200 RPM with no valve float.

Yikes. $459 just for the lifters?!

[GregN]

Everybody,

Thanks. I am going with the Hyd roller cam.


Greg

[CJ428CJ]

Be sure to report back after you get it on the road. I'd like to hear what you think.

Chris

[RICK LAKE]

Gregn How did you do with the roller cam? Did you get to the dyno? What size did you end up with? Like you I am thinking of a roller cam(SMALL) with a 6250 rpm limit. I want a idle in the 750 to 800 rpm without shaking me teeth out. Street motor. Waiting for a answer? Rick Lake

[Anthony]

I was considering a hydraulic roller, but kept on reading that the engines could never rev to or much beyond 6000 rpms due to reasons as listed above, heavy valve train, high spring pressures, bleed down of lifters. I often thought whether it would be safe to adjust the valvetrain to collapse the lifter to about .020" from bottoming out, so as to limit the distance the lifter can collapse. I know back in the '60's, Royal Pontiac used to do this to the GTO's, adjust the valva train to collapse the lifter near bottoming it out, to get higher rpm's out of a hydraulic lifter engine. BUt with a hydraulic roller, with greater lifts, faster ramps, higher spring pressures, I don't know if it would be safe to do so. I'll let someone else experiment first.

The roller gives you an advantage over flat cams at higher rpm's, so if you are limited to rpms by a hydraulic roller, it is not as beneficial as if you went to a solid roller, that you can take to higher rpms and make more top end power, where you need to be if you want to make big hp.

I just went with a solid roller, at about .660" lift. With a mechanical flat cam, you have to adjust the lifters anyways, so it's no different other than a bigger expense up front. It takes about an hour or so to do. No biggey.

[Hotfingrs]

Dave.... Did you talk to the cam makers, before going with that much lift?? I've used that much lift and ended up breaking lifters the last 2 yrs. After talking to Compcams, whose lifters I was using, I was told that you can't use that much lift on the street and can't run the engine under 3000 rpms. When I told them I got about 2000 miles on the engine, the said I was lucky, as they should have only lasted about 800 and about 1000 for the springs...

[Anthony]

Jack, all the cam manufacturters have "street rollers", and for the FE, the lifts range from .610 to about .660. Full comp rollers are about .750-.780 lifts. I think with SBC's, the lifts are less. When I bought my cam from crane, they said nothing about it. I also bought their pro series lifter, a shell type roller lifter compared to the standard bar-bell type, of which the shell is a little lighter. I heard that there are only a couple of roller lifter manufacturers, who sell to multiple cam manufacturers who then sell them under their name. I know crane makes their own FE roller lifter. I don't know who makes the comp-cams lifter. I've heard from several people that crane may have a better quality product than comp-cams.

I got 900 miles on my car now, and I guess I will need to check the spring pressures soon. The engine is running fine now, and hopefully for a long time. I run titanium retainers. I also run a oil cooler, as I heard that heat destroys valve springs, and it is the oil that cools them off, making them last longer. There are coated springs that apparently help the oil absorb the heat, to make them last longer. There are titanium springs as well, which last longer, although they are very expensive.

Initially, I had 20W-50 , and I could only achieve about 45-50 lbs pressure, which is taken after the oil filter and cooler. Since I changed to Mobil 1 10W-30, I now run about 70 lbs pressure, which I know means a higher pressure to the bearings, and a higher oil flow rate for better cooling and lubrication of engine parts, i.e.valve springs. I think this will provide better lubrication for the lifter as well. Whether it makes a difference or not, I don't know.

[Keithc8]

The only problem with the solid roller camshafts and lifters on the street is the roller lifter. The roller lifters require quite a bit of oil to lubricate the roller bearing in the lifter. When a street car idles around the lifters roller bearing does not get much oil and has a tendency to fail after a few thousand miles. we try to use the hydraulic roller lifters and camshafts for these reasons. We have used these with great success and with the right lobes and spring pressure we have been able to get them to turn 6700 to 6800 rpm's which is more than enough with a dual plain intake. The last engine we did had a single plain intake and it made horsepower all the way to 6800rpm's with a hydraulic roller, 719 max hp and still had 710 @ 6800 rpm's.

[Hotfingrs]

Keith, does the hydraulic roller require less oil than the solid roller lifter?? I've found that oil was an issue....I have been talking to Crane the last couple of weeks about cams and have found the cam I want....solid street roller. Actually makes about 60 more lbs of torque than my present cam. Lifters I haven't decided on yet....but I do use the Ford .874 lifter, so it's just a matter of finding a good one.

[Jamo]

Jack you sweet basturd!

I'm sure the life of your big lift motor had nothing to do with the way YOU drive!

I've got over 2200 miles on my 482 Shelby (4.250 Velasco) solid roller at .650 lift, and no problems (watch something happen now ). Obviously, I don't baby the sumb!tch. Idles fine at a lumpy 1K, stays extremely cool in the 100+ temps in stop and go, and boils the hides upon demand. I use a 6k chip for everyday use in the 6AL.

I've heard comments from several folks that bigger motors can take higher lifts???????

[Hotfingrs]

Jamooooooooooooo, The cam I was running had .667 lift, but I think the main reason for the failure was the spring pressures..205 closed and 640 open....everything I've been researching points to about 350 open....sure hope I get this sorted out by spring.

BTW do you need to borrow some chips to get your rpm up...LOL...I had been shifting at 7400, but the cam I'm looking at now puts peak power at 6500, but a nice wide torque band with just a little over 500lbs at 2000 and a little over 600 from 4500-5500 peak horse at 6500