Pressure & Temp Numbers OK?

[REDSC400]

Hi Guys:
Took possession of my ERA Cobra 427 with the FE 428 engine this Saturday. It was a real fine weekend here in New England to "break In" the old gal. #375 is about 11 years young with only 8500 miles on her.

We drove from the Mass Border down to the coast to introduce 375 to her new home. Crusing at 55-75 as traffic and conditions allowed.

Having not too much time under my belt with this engine (say 2 hours of test driving with the original owner), here are some of the figures I saw on the SW dashboard gauges:

Oil Temp: 140 to 150 F

Water Temp: 165 to 185F ( the higher end when in slow traffic or stop and go after a turnpike run), Typically 170.

Oil Pressure: 40 to 80 depending on RPM and how cold the engine is. In General it is usually 50 ish.

This car has the large oil cooler, a high pressure oil pump and a large (Milodon) circle track oil pan. Overall oil capacity is 9 qts of 10w-50 Mobil 1. At present the car has a Fram HP-1 filter however the next one will probably be a K&N.

Are the above numbers in the general ball park?

Again, being new to the engine, I am not too familiar with what is "normal". I also assume the gauges are just relative indicators and probably not too scientific.

Oddly enough, the 140 range on the SW Oil Temp gauge is just about at the very low end of the gauge. It seems that alot of gauge is wasted as it can read much higher than that as far as the face of the gauge is concerned. ??

Thanks for Your Time!

[PatBuckley]

Red,

Everything sounds great but for the oil temperature. I would prefer to see that a little higher and if I were you I would block off or not use the oil cooler. My ERA (535) ran similar temps and that is what I did.

Pat Buckley

[vettestr]

I think Pat is right on the money. Oil temp needs to reach 210 degrees to outgas and remove moisture content.

[ERA 626]

what is 210 degress in c. ? I too have a oil cooler and it takes a long time for my oil temp to come up. I have a smith guage and the sender in in the bottom of my Avaid pan.
I have a aluminum block and the motor seems to run much better when hot. (100 c.)
George anderson??? you out there??? hellow.....

[vettestr]

temp conversion = The equation for converting Fahrenheit to Celsius is: 210 F is about 98 C

((Deg. F) - 32) x (5/9) = Deg. C

[DonC]

Art:
I've seen oil temperature thermostats (both in line and in a filter sandwich fixture) mentioned on a couple of posts. Most are set to open at 180* to keep the temp where it should be even on cooler days with an oil cooler and during warmups. Might be worth looking into to bring the oil temp up.
DonC

[vettestr]

I run T-stats on all our projects and even a heater on our race car to ensure it is up to temp during the critical start up time. This with a pre-oil or pressure system is the only way to protect $$$$ on an all out engine and feel every motor benifits from the therory. I build a accusump that has 3 functions. 1. primes system on start up. 2. turns on if system pressure drops below 25 PSI to keep above 25 no matter what and 3. if drops below 15 PSI it turns off Ignition and fuel pump while turning on a red dash light. There is a push button bypass to Start if no pressure avail. like on oil change and sump is empty.
I have been thinking about selling system as it is very effective and DOES WORK in all mentioned areas. You could all build it as just pressure sw's at different trip points and NC and NO. The expensive part is a custom ZERO leak solinoid ( my cost is 125.00) I had built to my specs but will sit for a month and still have full pressure on start up.

[REDSC400]

Guys:
Does anyone know the effective optimal temperature range for Mobil 1 15W-50? I went to their web site but it does not specify that. I am a bit worried now. It seems what you are saying is that with the oil cooler, my oil temp is too low and thus the oil is perhaps too viscous (thick?).

I did notice in a catalog that there is a Remote Therostatic Control Valve for oil temperature made by B&M their part number 70259 (or that is the catalogs part number). When the oil temp gets above 180F the valve opens up fully and allows the oil to go to the cooler. When the temp is under 180F it only allows 10% of the flow to go to the cooler to prevent possible air pockets.
This soulds like a nice setup and is simple in nature.

Has anyone installed one of these B&M thermo valves?

Thanks

[Bob In Ct]

Hey Art:
When I got my SPF the oil pressure was very low, all the time. I removed the 20W-50 Castrol and the Fram filter. I installed a Mobil1 filter and 5W-30 Mobil1 oil. The pressure went up! That's right, it went up. At 2,000 RPM I run about 55 PSI (hot), 40 at idle(hot).

I figure the thicker oil had a hard time going through the cooler and all the plumbing involved. Remember the pressure pick-up is after all the tubing and cooler. I won't get into Reynolds Number and turbulent versus laminar fluid flow, but you can be sure it has a lot to do with the loss of pressure.

Just for the record, Mobil1 comes in 0W-20, 0W-30, 0W-40, 5W-30, 10W-30 and 15W-50. It does not come in 10W-50 or 20W-50. The Fram filters are not the best, go with the K&N or Mobil1 filter.

Give me a call, I'd love to see the car.

Bob

[REDSC400]

Hi Bob:
Yes you are correct, I meant to type 15W-50, I corrected that, good catch amigo! I did find out quite a bit about this low temperature thing. First, according to the technical specialist that I talked to at Mobil, he stated that the 180 - 210 F range is the optimal range for most oils, including Mobil 1. Mobil 1's claim to fame is that it is perfect for high stress driving situations, ie: real cold, real hot or short runs when the oil does not get hot.

That all said, it seems according to him, I have one of two thing going on, first and most likely, the oil cooler is over cooling the oil or doing too good a job. He suggested putting a clear plastic screen in front of it to see what effect if any it has on the oil temp. He thought it would go up by 20 degrees or so.

That test will prove out the second issue, which could be that my oil temperature sensor or gauge are reading a normal reading as lower than it actually is. The plastic shield in front of the oil cooler will give an indication of that perhaps.

He then suggested one of two things, either a thermolitic donut valve or an in-line valve or a in-line shutoff valve that would stop oil from going to the cooler.

Indeed we shall have you over to look at the Cobra. I am busy this weekend with prior commitments (Darn!). Maybe next weekend or during the week?

I am going to be putting in a Optima battery and nice battery box in the trunk. I did not like the old battery or its box. It is on its last legs for sure. Was changing out the anti-freeze and doing a flush or two this evening. Will be continuing on that work tomorrow night.

Cheers.

[REDSC400]

Just got back in from a 30 mile run to a car show. Tried an experiment as suggested by the Mobil 1 tech. Put some duct tape over the oil cooler before starting up.

The oil temp evenually rose to 190 F and stayed there. Seems to have done the trick. Byproduct is the oil pressure was perhaps lower at idle, say 32.

Could be just my imagination, but she is idling smoother when warm.

Outside temp was about 78F when doing this test.

Cheers

[Bill Wells]

aesthetically the oil cooler looks great. i had to disconnect mine for same reasons, oil temp on most days was too cold, especially with colder outside ambient temps. . i added an aluminum oil cooler cover/block out plate that attached with velcro on the sides of the cooler and could put it on / take it off with ease as temps required. finally, i got tired of on / off so i just disconnected the cooler and left it in place but not hooked up. now oil temps are fine all the time, usually 85-95 C, but never exceeding 100 degrees C ( 212 F) in traffic on very hot days . if i was to do any track time, then the cooler would be needed. til then, i am leaving it disconnected. btw, oil is mineral base, 20/50. bill.

[Bob In Ct]

Art:
Do what I do, get some foam rubber (matching color) and just insert it in front of the cooler when the temps are cool. It can be installed and removed in seconds. I also have a bigger piece for blocking off part of the radiator. I hate to send 40 degree coolant back to the engine. I don't want to shock it.

Bob

[REDSC400]

Bob!
That is a very great idea! Where can you obtain colored foam? White is the color I need. Probably a 1" thick by 16" x 5" would hold it in there pretty swell.

Hey, have you ever seen the Speedway Motors Race Catalog? They have some really great stuff. I picked up their polished aluminum battery box for the trunk. This box is a piece of art. They also have battery boxes designed specifically for the new Optima gel batteries. I just put in a Red Top Optima Gel yesterday. The old DieHard was 11 years old and still going strong but when I took it out and tested it and cleaned it, it was down. Somehow I feel better with a fluid-less gell type battery back in the trunk area. When I had my boat, I ran a dual set of the Optima yellow top deep cycles and they lasted forever in the harshest conditions.

Lets see, what else... Being a tool freak, I picked up one of those bleeder type tire air gauges made by Longacre. This is a real nice unit with a heavy rubber coated gauge (analog) and a nice high quality hose and a push button bleed down switch that bleeds air off slowly. Sometimes, when you have these good tools it makes tasks so enjoyable and easy you wonder how the heck you "suffered" so long without them. (ha Ha) The Longacre gauge is one of those kinds of tools. Perhaps gilting the lilly a wee bit but verrry nice. They make 3 different types, the difference being the number of pounds the gauge reads. All are in single pound increments.

[Cobra75]

Art,
You might try one more experiment to test the accuracy of your oil temp. Since the bourdon tube from the temperature pickup is open to the airflow beneath your car, it may be getting cooled by the airflow. Try wrapping the first few inches with some insulation...even a rubber hose taped over the tube would work.

One my friends with a small-block had this same issue, and after this "modification", the oil temp read 10-20° higher! Having said that, you will probably find that you will need to block the oil cooler intake in cooler weather. I like the foam idea...sure beats the cardboard I used last year.

[REDSC400]

Thanks for that Tip Scott:
IWhat I did is cut a piece of clear plexiglass to the size of the oil cooler. I then cut a length of 1/2" clear rubber tubing and slit that lengthwise and used it as a lower rubber gasket to stop rattles. Then using some velcro, I made two velcro straps to hold the plexiglass in place.

The result is a general oil temp of 180 to 190 and you can still cosmetically see the oil cooler. It also stays clean as well as a side benefit.

I will however, check out that tube and see where it is routed.

Thanks