FE Block Numbers

[clayfoushee]

Tom, Ron and KK,

Thanks for your help. KK I can't find ANY numbesr stamped on the pass. side of the block anywhere even with a lift and a good flashlight.

The numbers on the drivers side are

12 DIF stamped under the head at the front of the block (upside down)

and,

E3
G8 (I think) stamped just above the oil pan (also upside down)



Thanks for the help.

[FFR428]

FWIW the "DIF" is for the Dearborn Iron Foundry. Looks like a sideoiler here also....very nice. G.

[clayfoushee]

FFR, thanks....that tells me something. Where else were 427SO blocks cast besides Dearborn?

Ron, looking on the heads would be academic, the originals are long gone. It's running Edelbrock Aluminum Heads now.

[RiverRacer]

Looks like 1 G3(or 8) to me. July 3rd(or 8th), 1971. The block should have some ribs on it on the side opposite the one with the screw in allen plugs that are shown in your pictures. If it does have ribs, it's a 68 Hydraulic lifter Service Block. If it doesn't , it's probably one of the last 66/67 Service Blocks made.

[clayfoushee]

Thanks RR.....it could either be G3 or G8, but very helpful. I'll check for the ribs on the other side.

Tom Kirkham mentioned that service blocks were not worth as much money due to "core shift problems." Not that I really care that much about the value, since it's a driver not a museum piece, but what's a service block worth vs. an "original" and what does core shift problem mean? Right now, it's a very stout motor. I have no interest in either selling the motor or the car. I'm too in love with both, but just interested in it's history.

I did also notice a patch or fill of some sort on the pass. side back of the block just above the oil pan (nearest the fire wall). Looks like something may have caused a crack or hole at some point.

[RiverRacer]

Hi. The optimal 427 SO Blocks were produced between 1966 and 1967. The 1968 Blocks were the last of the line produced to be installed in production vehicles. These Blocks differ from the earlier SO versions in that they use Hydraulic Lifters(and thus, had Hydraulic lifter galleries incorporated into the design). The earlier SO Blocks were for use with Solid lifters, and had no lifter oil galleries. Arguably, the 66-67 Blocks were more 'race' oriented than the 68 Blocks, and probably of a higher quality overall, but I know lots of cars that run very well with 68 Blocks in them and live.

Core shift occurs in casting when the cores(inside the sand boxes or molds) either move, are off center or off axis, are not level or partially collapse as liquid is poured into the molds. This basically leaves parts of the mold filled to capacity and parts that are lacking material(either at the top, bottom, sides or a combination thereof). Core shift leaves one(or more) parts or areas of a cylinder wall(or outside wall, or deck, or main bulkhead, water jacket etc) thicker at one(or more) points than at others, and, if it is severe, may limit the engines ability to be rebuilt, overbored or even initially assembled. As companies went to thinner casting techniques, core shifting became more of a problem on more Blocks, especially those destined for production line car installation like the 68 Hydraulic lifter 427(produced in large quantities), instead of Blocks specifically produced for factory 'race'(NASCAR, Drag, Road Race) applications(produced in smaller, more controlled quantities).

To answer your question about value, if I had an NOS 67 Block(I do) and an NOS 68 Block, I would price the 67 Block at at least $1500.00 more because I feel it is a stronger casting. Keep in mind that most Cobras that were equipped with 427 engines would have had a pre 1968 Block in them. None, to my knowledge(which may not be as extensive on the subject as other members), was produced with a 1968 Hydraulic lifter Engine.

Also, keep in mind that the SO Block was designed for an engine that was NEVER installed in any Cobra in the first place. It was designed for the 427 SOHC, and adapted to the wedge motor after the ruling by NASCAR against allowing the engine to run in competition.

When looking at your 'patch' remember that Ford sometimes patched blocks at the factory depending on how hard pressed the schedule was to produce engines, parts and Cars. A factory repair will usually have a smooth surface and have 'bubbles' in it. If yours looks like this, it was 'professionaly' done by the factory and will outlast the rest of the Block, lol.

In any case, there is some info to mull over. I looked at the pictures with a 10X glass and feel as though you have a very nice car to drive and enjoy for a long time to come. Hope this helps. Dennis, DSC

[clayfoushee]

Dennis,

It helps A LOT! You're awesome. I'm attaching another picture of the other side of the block (pass. side). I don't think it has the big ribs you're describing, but I'm still a little confused about what "service block" means. The motor is currently equipped with solid lifters, so if it was a block designed for hydraulic lifters, don't know if there are any implications.

The block was bored "22 over," currently displacing 454 C.I. The builder told me it has a 428 Crank, Ford pistons, Elgin standard-type cam (lash adjustment is .025 and designed for low-end torque), Edelbrock Performer RPM alum. heads, turkey-pan, single carb (photo in my gallery).

The patch is also visible in the photo below...it's certainly not smooth, so probably not factory. Nonetheless, this engine has been flawless in my possession and has been a blast to drive. I plan on keeping this car the rest of my days, or at least until they carry me off to a home.

Thanks again for all the help.

[KobraKarl]

Clay ,

That IS a service block , (note the ten or so verticle ribs )and will have hydralic lifters.....also the reason it may not have the date code on the passenger side.....dosnt mean it isnt a great and genuine side oiler..!!

KK

[clayfoushee]

KK,

Thanks, but that begs the question, "What is a service block?" Also, if it was designed for hydraulic lifters, but now outfitted with solid ones, are there any implications?

It IS a great motor, so I'm very happy....just interested in it's history and date of manufacture.

[KobraKarl]

Clay,

" service block " is a general description for an "over the counter replacement" block , available from Ford dealers or ford parts houses....engines designated for equipment use (pumps, generators, etc) are also sometimes described as service blocks.

Converting a hydralic lifter block to a solid lifter block is just a matter of tapping and inserting a hex plug in the lifter oil galley....

Are you sure you have solid lifters?

KK

[clayfoushee]

Yep...KK..definitely solid lifters....confirmed by others (even a damn dummy like me can hear them). I assume, then, this was built in 68 or later? I don't want to waste other's time or prolong this thread, just interested in determining it's pedigree

Thanks for defining "service block" for me. I had speculated that was probably what it meant.

[TerribleTed13]

What would/is a true 427 sohc engine worth? I've been talking to a guy, said he worked and drove for Holman and Moody, and has one still in a crate. Not that I've seen it, and won't belive him untill I do. But a real "CAMMER ENGINE", the idea makes my palms sweat! He wants to trade it for a custom harley, I built.
Thanks for any ideas/help.

[KobraKarl]

Ted ,

if it were still in an original crate , and complete, I would wager in exess of $35.000.00

[RiverRacer]

As far as an NOS Cammer goes, I think that might be a bit high. One has to consider the fact that it would be 'glued' together after sitting in cosmoline for 35+ years and would cost probably $5,000.00 just to freshen up to the point where it could be started and reliably run. One can purchase good, fresh normally aspirated Cammers for around $24,000.00 in the US, so I'd estimate it's value at $26,000.00 +-. This is just my guess of course, but if your bike is approaching that price in it's worth, it may be a good deal. By the way, glad I could shed some light, Clayfoushee. Any questions, just call 909-763-9765.

[clayfoushee]

RR,

Very helpful, and thanks for the contact info. It's great to know where a very knowledgeable resource can be located.

[jcmcobra]

Guys,

This has been GREAT! I tried recently to get to the same point as Clay has and have learned an awful lot from these messages. It looks like Clay and I have the same kind of block; ie. 427 SO Service Block. I was given all of the places to look, and like Clay, couldn't find anything like a casting number on the passenger side and only the casting numbers below #1, the "DIF" casting and the "352" on the front. All of his pictures match mine for locations. Like Clay's, mine is a hydralic block converted to solids. The dilemma now is what year is it and where can I find a part number, without disassembly, to determine? Anyone out there who can help?

Thanks.

John

[clayfoushee]

John,

Thanks for reviving this. I'd pretty much given it up, and just assumed it was 68 or later. If and when I ever remove and tear down this engine, I figured I could peg it better then.

Are you hooked up with CACC? If not, you should be....what a great group!

Best,

[jcmcobra]

Clay,

Do know about CACC, they gave me the wonderful forum name of D-Tox which has no relevancy to anything but their distain for Corvettes (not that I blame them). I made only one gas-up since I am down at my lake house most weekends. BLACKJACK has been very helpful in getting issues resolved so I can get my car titled and registered in VA. Hopefully, once I get it on the street, i can bring it up here on occasion for any activity. If not, I'll be out at Summit Point for FATT as often as I can get there.

With the apparent likeness of our blocks, it will be interesting to keep in touch about what we learn. As I am typing this, it occurs to me to remind you about a past message to you about the McFezMobile and its history. That's my car.

John

[clayfoushee]

John....I do remember the whole "D-Tox" thing( since I self-annointed myself "Bulleye"), as well as the McFezmobile story. I just acquired my car last August and hooked up with them shortly after. I don't make it over to the other side of the river very often on Sat. morning, but they have helped me immensely in that short period of time.

[Rick Bagley]

Clay,

This has been intresting reading, I must tell you that the experts are not always right. Just because your block has ribs on it dosn't make it a service block. I would love to show these guys a original 65 Ford Galaxie with the original 427 SO with ribs. Also I have seen other block with ribs in original cars, there are even 390 blocks out there with ribs. I do have a 72 side oiler (service block) that was cast 2H31, 1972, August 31st (it has ribs). I have heard the last blocks were cast in September of 1972. All service blocks were not inferior blocks either, especially after 1968. So I will take mine any day at least all the upgrades had been made by 72. I am sure you have a great engine and will be happy with it for a long time. Just a little info on the subject.