fantasy engine build

[ToyCollector]

Originally posted by Lew Ledyard


TC:

Pick on those guys that got the $39.99 KMP blue light special!

The Sharpie treatment is pre-KMP273, or somewhere thereabouts, I have to check. I think, there may be a few more serial #s that are included however. Again, I have to check.

[Lew Ledyard]

I guess that I might be grandfathered in as my original number was KMP 233.

[Jamo]

Lew

You did, in fact, order a KMP 427 "J" model, did you not? Whether you like it or not, those models WILL be signed!

A Purdy is for those who take a shotgun approach.


Tom

Sharpies checked at the door? My ass!

[Lew Ledyard]

It simply would not be a J model otherwise.

[Jamo]

Don't worry...I'll be nice. Across the hood ok?

[Lew Ledyard]

Fine, just not across the dash in silver.

[ToyCollector]

Lew well done.

Red it is then, since you don't like silver.

[Mr427]

I like this company and the comments here, especially from Tom Kirkham. Those are professional observations from someone who is in a position to know. Do as he says !!!!

Since it was not mentioned regarding the aluminum heads, you need to go a 1.0 higher on the c.r. because of the thermal absorbtion characteristics of aluminum. If you don´t and still go with a very radical cam, the engine will not reach any level of efficiency in its breathing cycle. With cams in the 245-265 degree range and .650 plus lift and aluminum heads you really need a hefty c.r. The C3AE-C is a very interesting cylinder head from a historical standpoint, because it marks the final step on the evolutionary road from the 332 into the 427. I have a set of these heads, cast in May 1963, only a few weeks before the 406 was dropped in favor of a bored and cross-bolted version of the same engine. It was called Low-Riser. The heads bear a different casting number on the LR, but they are essentially the same as the 406 and the 428CJ, but I think they carry smaller combustion chambers, 68cc vs. 72 or 74 on the CJ.

Also, the center oilers all had solid lifter cams, so you need not bother with any oil restrictors, drilling, tapping or plugging the lifter galleys, like I erroneously stated before. Sorry. Further, everyone who comments on connecting rods seems to agree that however fancy those old LeMans rods are, they are now, like me, in their forties. So, get SCATs or Eagles for the bottom end.

I thought you were on a tight budget, so therefore I suggested you scrounge around for some factory good guy stuff like cams and manifolds. The medium riser was raced with transistor ignitions after 1965 and they worked well. A lot of this equpment comes on E-bay all the time and some of it goes at fair prices.

Later.

A zero balance 3,85" factory crank is a good bet, but if you can go to a 4++ for a similar amount and use the Mopar rods and Arias or other pistons at an equivalent price, then that is the wat to go.

Mr. 427

[misfit41]

thanks again for the post,I am trying to keep this on a budget,but I was thinking for 3500 ,that should cover heads,cam,valve train and pistons,I have a used unilite distributer I may use,as well as a ford duraspark{they say thse still work great with msd}
I had not even thought of using the old heads because of weight,and I am not sure if they will port match my med riser intake,I do have an old 427 eldebrock port matched to heads though,I may reconsider,I can always buy new heads later on.
I like the idea of the 4.25 crank and bbc rods,does any one know how much prep work is required to use this set up ? I am thinking with a 6500-6800 rev limit,a cast crank would be fine,any piston reccomendations ?
thanks again,,Tim

[misfit41]

Tom,
I just read the press articles on your site,you have me pricing scat cranks,,hahah
I just wanted to say that your products ,as well as your tact and attitude on these forums impresses me,it's great to see you always take the high road,when I am sure sometimes you would prefer going the other way.Tim

[Mr427]

Misfit:

The major work with the 4.25 crank and BBC rods is, well, balancing and fitment issues mainly. The piston issue will probably be dtermined by the heads and chamber type you will use. Expect to pay in the 450-650 range for custom slugs. That is why I suggested the 3.98 crank, it opens up a list of 4.25" pistons that these days you can get from Arias and others for a decent fee. But, go with the flow, bigger is always better in this yard ...... until you pull up to the pump ..........

[rritchey]

Misfit,

Some of this is repeat, but it is real life experience with dyno sheets to back it up.. I just recently (end of Dec. 2003) built and dynoed a 427 built on a 63 center oiler block with Edelbrock heads and Victor FE intake. I used a mild Lunati solid cam (less than .600" lift), out of the box complete Edelbrock heads, out of the box Victor FE intake, JE pistons, speedpro rings, 428 CJ 1U crank, lemans rods, Holley 830 CFM with annular boosters. This was not an expensive motor by any stretch, and it made 554 HP (6100 RPM) and 567 Ft-Lbs (4600 RPM). With this smaller cam size you don't have to go crazy with valvetrain - I just used Harland Sharp rockers on factory stands/shafts. Also used all the hardware that came on the Edelbrock heads just the way they came. If you already have the block, crank and rods, you should easily be able to duplicate this with an additional $3500 in parts. Go ahead and use the CJ crank and Lemans rods - they are plenty good up to 6500 RPM and you can use the money elsewhere. You can get those lemans rods completely reconditioned with new ARP bolts for about $200. Find a CJ flywheel that is counterweighted so you don't have to buy the expensive mallory metal to internally balance the CJ crank. I'm assuming your $3500 does not include machine work or assembly, only parts and does not include the block and other stuff you already have.... If that is true you got it made. One more thing... be sure you tap and plug that extra little hole that goes thru the block in the oil filter adapter area. If you don't, you'll be sorry.

[misfit41]

Rritchey
Thanks for the great post,this is good info,it is easy to get carried away on a motor build,but after 500 hp in a cobra,what good is it ?your also correct that 3500 is parts only,not counting what I already have.
What kind of pistons did you use ?
This is the set up I am going with,I am trying to decide if it is worth while to get the stage 2 eldebrock heads with 2.19 valves installed and use more cam,or leave well enough alone.hope someone can advise me there.
I had also thought about the harland shart rockers,I wondered how they were.
thanks for the help,Tim

[rritchey]

Tim,

If you are not interested in going over mid 500's in HP, there is no need to touch the heads - just use the complete built ones from Edelbrock right out of the box. I used JE flat tops, 4.25" bore, made to work with the 3.98" stroke (11:1 comp.). They are pricy but you can count on them. Arias also makes a good 427 stroker piston. The edelbrock heads already have 2.19" valves in them anyway. I've used the Harland Sharps several times and have always been pleased. On more radical motors I do use the hardened shafts and stands offered by Harland Sharp - and now they offer solid spacers to replace the springs between the rockers.

[Mr427]

Mitchey:

Where is and what is that hole you say needs to be plugged, in the oil filter adapter area? Please explain what this is all about.

[rritchey]

Well, a picture is worth a thousand words, but I don't own a digital camera.... If you look at an early center oiler block, in the area where the oil filter adapter bolts to the side of the block, there is a small "extra" hole that gets covered up by the adapter. Not all blocks have them but most do. It is pretty small, about 1/8" or so. It is just a straight hole from the outside of the block through to the crankcase. If you do not plug it, the oil pressure will likely rupture the paper oil filter adapter gasket and your oil pressure will just shoot right back through to the crank case. No oil will go into the oiling system. I only had to see this happen one time, and I decided that I would plug all my blocks just to be safe. I have no idea why the hole is there, but it sure can be an engine killer.