Seeking Advice on Aluminum FE Build

[W. MITTY]

I've got a Kirkham 427 on order, and its time to make some final decisons about the engine. I have decided on a Shelby aluminum block, but that's about it. I was hopeing to get a little sage advice from the community about particulars, i.e., heads, intake, carb(s), valvetrain, crank, stroke, bore, etc. Here are my priorities, in order of importance:

1) The engine has to be bulletproof. I plan to use the car for extended road trips. Just like the guys ride Harleys to Sturgis, I want to drive from sea to shining sea, and to all points in between. It's got to start everytime I turn the key. This is by far the most important thing to me, even if I have to sacrifice a bit of horsepower to get it.

2. The engine as to be a blast to drive on the street, but it also has to stay alive in stop and go traffic in the swelter of Arizona heat. I want as much tire smoking torque/horsepower as I can reasonably obtain WITHOUT sacrificing priority #1.

3. I'm looking for a great price/function ratio. I couldn't care less about wow factor parts that don't provide bang for the buck.

4. My budget is $15-18k, but less would be nice.

Any thoughts about a builder who could accomplish this feat?

[Perf. Eng. Eric]

It may be tough to build the engine you want for that price. We usually get around $19 to $20 K for that type of engine. By the time you install a good hydrlic roller cam kit, Shelby aluminum heads,and the good roller rocker system,and all the other top notch parts into that block, they tend to get a little expensive. Nice engine when it is done . Call us if we can help (513) 738-5001

[cobra]

W. Mitty

Ask George Anderson from Gessford ( http://www.gessford.com/ ) and you are in the best hands !

Greetings from Switzerland

Walter

[Cobra75]

IMHO, you'll be lucky to get it done for $18k.

You won't have alot of choices compared to a SB, but don't skimp on the internals after you already spent $$$ for the Shelby block. I like Scat crank, Oliver or Eagle rods, Ross or JE pistons, Erson roller rockers. Edelbrock heads vs Shelby might save you some money. Edelbrock intake with holley and flat tappet hydraulic lifters. Hydraulic roller would be preferable, but requires more expensive lifters and you'll need to replace the valve springs. Also, don't choose an engine builder-even if he's cheaper-who hasn't worked on FEs.

[W. MITTY]

I obviously have a bunch to learn regarding FEs. Any thoughts on crank/stroke specs for street driving?

[Mr427]

From your spoken requirements, it sounds like you would be best off with a close to standard bore 427 and using a 428 crank that has been balanced to zero. This will give you 454 plus CID and dimensions that are proven over almost four decades.

+This engine size means you won´t have to carry saddle fuel tanks over the mountain passes and into the dessert ........

Only go with an engine builder who has more than a dozen FE´s under his belt. Remember, the 427 Ford won at LeMans four years running and still causes its victims to shiver. Do it justice!

MR427.

[Allan A]

I just finished two Alum motors with George at Gessford. I would contact him, but your number is low.

Allan

[Lew Ledyard]

Contact Bill at Southern Automotive. They advertise on this site.

[Cobra75]

Since you're in AZ, I would suggest you find closest engine builder with FE experience. If you have "issues" with the build, you'll have to take or ship the engine back to whoever built it....I know this from experience. And regardless of their reputations, most engine builders have "issues" sooner or later. Two guys in the CACC had Southern build their engines (new 351's),& both had to go back to be "fixed". They do stand behind their work and repaired the motors without charge, but the the Cobra owners were out $$ & time for the shipping.

[RaceDeck]

Great Choice on the Kirkham, I also have one in the works and for the same reason we choose Kirkham, I went with Bill Parham at Southern Automotive.. He built my last BB stroker motor and it was a monster and very reliable. They stand behind thier motors 110% and are a pleasure to do business with. Bill will alk you through the motor options step-by-step....are you heading to the KMP Summit?

[W. MITTY]

RaceDeck,

Yes! I will be at the Summit. I'll look forward to seeing you there!

Mike

[John 550]

I put a 427 in my car this year . When I was looking and asking questions on the
aluminum at the time , I found there was some machine work , and other things that
needed to be made right in order to start the job right . There may have been changes
since .
I had the same budgit ,


The reason I responded is to tell you :

You don't need to stroke it , unless you need to use the crank !
You dont need to roll the cam or make it solid !
Don't bore it , It's big enough , I think it will run cooler too !
Don't learn how to drive it with other cars , people around ,
you will be amazed how fast the back will pass you !

[ENTDOC]

Keith Craft will do one for you for around 17,500 and that is with good parts.I have heard nothing but good things about his motors and he is fairly close to you.I ended up using an iron block with aluminum heads and a 428 crank,roller cam,Arais forged pistons and a Victor intake.It is one scary motor. chuck

[W. MITTY]

Entdoc --

I too have heard good things about Kieth Craft, and the prices he displays on his website seem reasonable, although none include the Shelby block. I know that Keith posted an ad for a Genesis Aluminum engine that was complete, carb to pan, for $16500. I wonder what a Shelby block would add to the FE package (Genesis block) which he lists for less than $14K. Looks like I better give them a call.

It seems clear that a person can easily spend a small fortune on an FE -- based on what I've seen and heard, $25k wouldn't be out of the range. However, I'm going to stick to my guns and go on believing that I can do it for less than $20k. I just wouldn't have any fun stomping on a engine that costs more than my wife's car.

Thanks for the feedback.

[jayscobras]

No Question about it KEITH CRAFT MOTORSPORTS. Talk to DREW. He and Keith are Head and Shoulders on all Cobras. Best and Most experienced Fe builders in the Country. (972-578-3550) 17-18,000 for aluminum. motor and upgrades on cranks and such from there. CAll Them you wont be sorry. ASK around!!

JAY

[Sizzler]

Are you absolutely set on a Shelby block?

The Genesis aluminum block will save you thousands.
Using non-Shelby aluminum heads will also save you a grand.

A stock, or at least non-billet crank will save you thousands.

You don't need billet rods either, and who'll see them?

You should be able to build an aluminum FE within your budget,
but why? For street use? Just using a good set of aluminum
heads and an aluminum intake will save you a hundred pounds
of weight. For the street, the weight savings from an aluminum
block wouldn't really be of any real benefit, just cost.

Going with a thick-walled new Genesis iron block will save you
thousands more. And once the block is painted (Ford blue?),
who'll know?

[ENTDOC]

I too struggled with the iron vrs aluminum issue;aside from the cost issue,I decided I wanted an authenic 427 side oiler in my Kirkham.An aluminum block is not a side oiler (do not want to start a" which is best" thread here) and I did not want to have to explain why I did not have a 427SO in my car to the inevitable question asked by folks. I also might suggest a 428 crank (cheap),standard ,or close to it,bore as a reliable combination that will make plenty HP.Trying to save too much in the bottom end with less expensive parts may be more costly in the long run.Go with forged pistons,new quaility rods,ARP bolts and the best bearings you can get.Good luck and have fun with the project,but do choose your builder wisely and do a search on aluminum vrs iron block,you should find my old question and good responses on there. chuck

[RaceDeck]

Just as ENTDOC said, I too struggled with Iron Vs. Aluminum block and after talking with a few people including the Kirkhams, I went with the Aluminum Block and heads. As for who to build it? I went with the company that treated me right and built me a reliable monster motor in the past - Southern Automotive, Bill without a doubt is one of the top FE builders in the country and has lots of motors under his belt. YOu should bo to a builder that you fell is right for you and one that has a long list of happy customers..from there, they should be able to honestly tell you what you really need based on what you expect out of the car.

Ps. when and if you ever go to sell your car, and there is another one very similar with the Aluminum Block, I would bet that it will sell first..However, that should not be your reason to do it.

[badrich]

I had my 428 FE powered Contemporary on the road for a few months until a wrist pin retainer exited the wrist pin leaving a groove in the cylinder. Instead of rebuilding this engine I decided to go with a real 427 sideoiler this time. After looking around a whileand not seeing what I wanted, I saw Southern Automotive's web site and it looked quite impressive. I was thinking of a real iron sideoiler with aluminum heads and all the bells and whistles. But after leaving two email messages and one actual voice message, no one ever attempted to get back to me. I was surprised and disappointed, as I was really impressed with the web site. But rather than getting too depressed, I opened a really good bottle of Swan Zin and thought it over.

I decided to bite the bullet and contact my Shelby dealer. While I spent a lot more than I ever dreamed I would, I now have a completely new motor that (so far) is bulletproof and very streetable. It has all the power I'll ever need (so far); all I need to do is learn to drive the car all over again. [Squeeze that throttle...] The people I dealt with were very responsive and very good to deal with. And now I own a 50% *real* Shelby. ; ) Rich

[W. MITTY]

Sizzler --

I'm not dead set on the Shelby block -- I just like the idea of a saving a little weight by going with aluminum. The name stamped on the block means very little to me. In fact, I would like to learn more about the Genesis aluminum block. Does anyone know if it is actually based on the original Ford block design? I understand that the Shelby block is quite different from the side oiler block internally. Anyone have any idea whether the Genesis aluminum block is readily available, and if so, the cost ?

I met the guys form Genesis several years ago when they had a booth at Barrett Jackson. However, I have not heard much about them lately. Any reliable information regarding Genesis would be greatly appreciated.