Shelby Aluminum

[steelcomp]

BTW, side pipes cost 60 hp.

[PatBuckley]

ALL side pipes?

Wow!

[steelcomp]

The last 427 I built was for a cobra project that I was doing. It was a chassis up brand new G&S, and it was an all alum. Shelby. Found a BRAND NEW nos steel crank (still in cosmoline), Eagle rods, Venolias (10.2:1) Comp solid, Shelby heads that I ported and did the valve job on, Manley valves, Dove rockers, Manton p/rods, Blue thunder int and a Holley 750 db. with an MSD. I talked with Mike LeFevers at Shelby (sp) throughout the project and we were looking at the mid 500 hp range.

You guys with these kit cars don't get the fact that you have about the worst chassis design going for getting power to the ground. Some of the live axle cars do better, but then they are even less a cobra replica, just a bastardised copy to me. I remember guys bragging how their car could "smoke the tires at 60 mph!" BFD. If you had any kind of properly engineered suspension, you wouldn't do that! It's nothing to brag about. The Arntz/ Butler is about the only car out there with any kind of thinking about the chassis engineering, and I've had this arguement with tube chassis guys vs. back bone, monococque, all types. None of them work, but I have seen a true 840 hp BBC in an Arntz w/slicks and the Jag rear turn 9.40's, and drive home.
You wanna try that in your car?
HP in these cars has nothing to do with how fast or quick they are, and some of you guys that are putting this kind of power in these cars are literally taking your life in your hands. I wonder how many of you would even know what 600 hp feels like when it's REALLY hooked up.

[steelcomp]

We've dyno'd so many different exhausts and yes, the best we could find cost 60 hp. That was a few years ago, but I doubt that technology has changed much in a straight flo thru round muffler. We used the LoBack spiral muffler. It cost a little more power, but was the best quality and sounded the best. I made the headers.

[Jamo]

steelcomp

Actually, I had a Butler.

You'd be surprized at the amount of experience and knowledge here.

[steelcomp]

What ever happened to Butler or G&S Motorsports?

[Jamo]

G&S went out of business in the mid-90s or so, still owing Ron Butler more than a few bucks. Ron's alive and well in Ventura County.

[steelcomp]

OK, I heard the story. I heard Butler sold them a bunch of stuff he didn't own, and the thing ended up in court. I think it was about the body molds, and Arntz was still involved somehow.

[Jamo]

Yup...there was quite a story. Hard to understand it all in down under speak.

BTW, don't tell that POS Sunshine this, but my Butler was more authentic than his Shelby.

[steelcomp]

I can tell you in english. I'm the "S" in G&S.

[CSX 4027]

POS MR MODERATOR??

I THINK YOU NEED TO HAVE A SALAD FOR MORE THAN ONE REASON, DON'T YOU?

[steelcomp]

I don't know about more authentic, but definately a better car.
I'm not on anyone's side here except for the truth. To be honest this is the first time I've even talked about Cobras since 1998, when I was living and breathing them for 100+ hrs a week for well over a year. And Steve Arntz, since this cat's out of the bag, if you're out there and keeping tabs on all this, I haven't forgotten about your sorry fat ass either.
Just wanted to see if anything has changed much. Nope.

[computerworks]

POS?

"Plain Ol' Steve"????

[Excaliber]

Man that ET, horse power weight calculation for 1/4 mile sure don't seem right. According to those calcs a 670 horse car weighing around 2800 should easily be in the LOW 10's?????

The calcs must assume PERFECT world conditions.

,,,,, and when it comes to drag racing I'm far from "perfect".

[steelcomp]

slick...read my post to you on the last page

[Jamo]

Steve

But I want to stay choice enough for you to bite me.


Steelcomp

That was an inside joke of sorts with 4027, whose 4000 series Shelby was actually more authentic than an original.

Glad to make your acquaintence, as it were. Nice opening...you play poker?

I had Butler No. 5, now owned by a gentleman in Massachusettes or some such place...drunk Scot or something. There's actually a bit of an Arntz/Butler forum here if you haven't found it yet...I'm sure the guys would love to converse with ya.

When I bought mine in 98, I drove down to Golieta hoping to find someone at home...no luck. I certainly won't disagree with you about the technical aspects of the car...solid as hell, great handling from the front mid-engine layout, the positioning of the jag rearend...all of a piece really.

Knew there was another side to Ron's story...

[Excaliber]

Steelcomp,, yeah I see your point about low 10's. Maybe someone could run that but it won't be me, even with slicks! I use all that horse power to overcome my mistakes and still get a decent time.

[steelcomp]

I'll spare you the details, but yes, there sure is another side of the story. The word Cobra was a real bad thing for me for a long time, but my curiosity, and passion for the car got the better of me. I'm sure there's been some growth in the industry, and it's good to see that some of my predictions were correct.

The Arntz/Butler was really never intended to be the best handling car out there, nor was it supposed to be a perfect replica. It was intended to be a car that could be driven 100K miles. A solid, every day dependable sporty transportation vehicle. That's where it truely shines. There was an Arntz typeIV that was actually submitted to Ford for mass production, which passed all DOT crash requirements for the time. I saw it. One hell of a car. Had a trailer hitch on it. Pulled a Sanger (I think) flat bottom.

[Jamo]

Well, as long as we're off topic...whatever the topic was...the strength of the car is self evident. No cowl shake, the doors closed with a clunk, etc.

One guy here, Rally Snake, competes regularly with his Arntz in rallies throughout Southern California and generally kicks a lot of modern machinery a$$ doing it. Has a funny looking motor with Ford valve covers with the ignition out back (Chevy powered like many were). I had a Cleveland...well matched with a five speed...which I autocrossed pretty damned successfully up here in our SCCA chapter, and regularly played at Willow Springs.

Arntz showed up at the Bay Area Cobra Club dinner a year or so ago, and a guy named Monster has a sweet Arntz.

I've said it here many times...it took a arruminum Cobra to get me out of the Butler.

Stick around...some of us only have 10 or so horesepower and welcome folks who can shed light on the history of this fine madness.

[steelcomp]

I still have a major score to settle with Arntz.
I'll be around. If you're the moderator, do you have my email?