Shelby Aluminum

[Sizzler]

Originally posted by BANDIT 1


I think that if Ford was still racing the Cobra and selling them into the late 1960's/early 1970's that the Cobra would have "evolved" into the 429 S/C Cobra or 460 S/C Cobra. Chevy did the exact same thing when they switched to the 454 engine in the Corvette. The 454 was also mostly in trucks after the early 1970's, does that make the 454 a truck engine?

The hi-performance 429 engine's were in the Torino, Mustang, and Cougar's just to name a few, I would hardly call those "trucks".

Actually, it IS a truck engine, then and now.
Just because some marketing types tried to spread the amortization for the new engine to additional product lines, doesn't change the fact that the 385 series engine was designed, and meant, for use in trucks. It's huge, big, bloated and seriously overweight. And it's not just me who thinks so. Just as you can't run Detroit Diesel blocks, or Merlin V-12's in NHRA, you can't run a 385-series engine in NHRA races either; though hemi's, BBC's and yes, FE's, ARE all allowed.

So there (why does some old polka tune keep running through my head?)

[bret a ewing]

The viper V10 motor also started out as a truck motor ...........

Whats wrong with a truck motor?

Le Mans 1996, 1997.

Regards, Bret.

[BANDIT 1]

Mr. Sizzler,

As I have said before, the 429 Ford engine and the 454 Chevy engine's both were "hi-performance" engine's for cars to begin with. Are you trying to say that the 428 Cobra Jet was a "car" engine, but the 429 Cobra Jet was a "truck" engine? Quit making the extra 100 lbs of a 460 sound like the engine is only good for a dump truck. As KC said, the 429/460 was designed like the BBC engine, are they all truck engine's? They make aluminum block's for 460's also, quit crying about the weight. You must not watch many NHRA events, because in Pro Stock ALL of the Ford engine's are 385 series, the FE engine's are all in the "Jurassic Park" division (old ladies 50 - 85 year old).

I have nothing against the FE engine's (again, I had a 69 Pro Street Mach 1 with a 427 SO engine and my brother had a 1969 Ford Torino with a 428 Cobra Jet), just the "fantasy" that it's a better engine than a 385 series!

[rdorman]

Keith, what would you do with my Cleveland????
Thanks
Rick

[Cracker]

I have no doubt that the overbore and stroke you can get out of a 460 variant is superior to the FE - this has already been addressed. The main reason I'd choose a 385 series from the start is price - THEY ARE CHEAP TO BUILD COMPARATIVELY!!! If power and keeping price down are the main goals of a project put that cheap pig in there - don't think twice. You could tell 98% of the population that it's a side-oiler anyhow and they wouldn't know the difference - I don't know if many people here would know the difference! Heck, maybe most 514/460 owner's think they have FE's! God bless them - seriously - they've found performance on a budget - good for them!

[MidOHasp]

Originally posted by Turk


J.P.
What would it be "if they came with 460s?"...

They WOULD be TRUCKS!!

TURK

AWD Cobra with a 4" lift kit and a Class V trailer hitch...tranny cooler, most people have mud & snow tires on them anyhow...

So, what's your point??!!

[steelcomp]

Sizzler,
Where do you get your information? I learned a long tima ago that the 385 was developed in 1968 basically for use in trans am racing. The Ford engineers took the BBC and erased all it's problems in it's design. The 385's big bore-short sroke, long rod combination make it one of the most optimally designed engines ever built (from an engineering/ dynamics standpoint) The canted valve heads are much better than a BBC, and they were designed for performance with slighter valve angles, shallower chambers fro better combustion, symetrical ports and a better spark plug location. Some of the first 385 (prototype) blocks were aluminum. It was actually one of the most "racing oriented" engine designs that ford had developed with the Boss program, answering to Chrysler's Hemi.
You say you can't use them in NHRA? 385s are all over the track in NHRA. Some of the best running cars out there are runnig 385s.

There's nothing "bloated" about the 385. It's bigger because of the better bore spacing, which is something that other engine makes wish they had, and spend big dollars on specialty racing blocks and heads to duplicate!
You need to understand engine design and why the changes that were made to the 385 over the FE came about. It would help you have a clearer uunderstanding of what you are talking about. If you DO know these things, then I don't understand why you would make such statements. You sound like you have something personal against the 385, or anyone who appreciates the engine for what it is.
Oh, yes, AND it does make a good truck engine, as well. But I'm pretty sure that came after, not before.
There is a 385 post on the board, as well.

[steelcomp]

JP...I think you're on to something..a Cobra SUV...sort of like the Porsche Cayenne, only "cooler".

Hmmmm.

[Excaliber]

I assume 427's (center oiler, top oiler NOT side oiler) were also used in trucks?

There was a thread not long ago that asked the question WHICH vehicles DID come with a 427. I thought the question was never 100% answered due to confusion over WHICH 427 configuration was being discussed.

I DO know some Ford station wagons had a 427. Therefore the FE is certainly a "station wagon" motor???

[MidOHasp]

I think what some people are saying is...

FTFE!!!

just not me...they're all good....

[Sizzler]

Originally posted by steelcomp


Sizzler,

You say you can't use them in NHRA? 385s are all over the track in NHRA. Some of the best running cars out there are runnig 385s.

There's nothing "bloated" about the 385. It's bigger because of the better bore spacing, which is something that other engine makes wish they had, and spend big dollars on specialty racing blocks and heads to duplicate!

You need to understand engine design and why the changes that were made to the 385 over the FE came about. It would help you have a clearer uunderstanding of what you are talking about. If you DO know these things, then I don't understand why you would make such statements. You sound like you have something personal against the 385, or anyone who appreciates the engine for what it is.

See story here (maybe you should try to stay current with developments in motorsports --- seems to be the fundemental basis for your problems in this thread ): Story

The 385 is a big boy rolypoly engine. It belongs in trucks pulling stumps or pushing up mud, in boats, wallowing and floating and providing emergency backup for the anchoring system. Just my opinions. Lighten up.

As for its supposedly superior design features, last time I looked, the new LS1's and the new modulars all look a lot more like FE's than 429's with the deep skirts and crossbolts and all. Not seeing too much of the 429 in newly-designed engines.

[BANDIT 1]

Mr. Sizzler,

The engine is so feared that they outlawed it, enough said...

The 385 series engine still is the only Big Block Ford engine in NHRA Pro Stock race cars.

[MidOHasp]

Originally posted by Sizzler


...with the deep skirts and crossbolts and all...

Yeah cause cross bolts and deep skirts are a HUGE deal.

Tell ya what, the new Ford Modular V8s have cross bolted mains, too...and that was to hold them together because they broke apart easily on initial testing (so a reputable Ford engine builder told me). Not as a "performance enhancing addition" or because of the obviously huge market for performance add-ons with F150's and Expeditions. Yeah, yeah, I know they are in the Mustangs, too...

I'm not slighting the FE. I'm just saying that cross bolted mains aren't what make them hot $h!t.....

Am I right or am I right? Right? Alright!

[RACER X #99]

Could somebody please point out the dominant Ford powered racers in Pro stock? I must be missing something.

Current NHRA Pro Stock points leaders

Position Driver Points PB
01 Greg Anderson 855 *
02 Jason Line 795 -60
03 Steve Johns 770 -85
04 Larry Morgan 705 -150
05 Dave Connolly 695 -160
06 Kenny Koretsky 635 -220
07 Bruce Allen 610 -245
08 Kurt Johnson 595 -260
09 Rickie Smith 570 -285
10 Mike Edwards 545 -310
11 Jeg Coughlin 480 -375
Warren Johnson 480 -375
13 Jim Yates 410 -445
14 Allen Johnson 350 -505
15 Troy Coughlin 260 -595

[BANDIT 1]

Mr. Racer X,

You have a point about the 2 Ford Pro Stock cars against 30 GM Pro Stock cars? Ford has not been factory involved in Pro Stock for atleast 5 years now. When Ford was factory involved in Pro Stock and the amount of Ford/GM cars were around 50/50, Ford ruled Pro Stock, period.

[Excaliber]

Could someone tell me what engines the above list of guys are using?

Interesting,,,,, so the 429 was SO feared and would instantly make all other engines obsolete NHRA had it banned!

All that from a really old engine. Of course I like my station wagon FE better than that old 429 truck motor anyway.

[RACER X #99]

Bandit,
Bob Glidden ruled Pro Stock, Not Ford. When the Ford Hemi could no longer keep up with the Brand X and C cars, Glidden went to the Ford Wedge (your favorite) which is completely outclassed. You die hards never give up. Period

If the 385 is such a great engine why aren't more racers running them?

[mr bruce]

Fact is , in all the sportsman classes in NHRA competition, CHEVYS RULE. Sure there are a few Fords sprinkled in there. The R+D on the Chevy engines is lightyears ahead of the Fords. Here's another thing to ponder, how long 'till Ford quits Nascar, they're down to 6 or so teams that have a chance at winning. Face it, it's a Chevy world out there.

[BANDIT 1]

Mr. Racer X,

I never have said I like the wedge 385 series engines over the hemi 385 series engine's, I like all 385 series including the 429 BOSS. All racing groups like NHRA, IHRA, NASCAR, etc... change rules that help out certain manufacturer's in the name of "evening out the competition". No, I can't remember the details of why Bob Glidden left the NHRA. The bottom line is without serious factory backing no brand can compete in any "major" racing venue.

As a previous member said earlier, the NHRA just changed the rules so the BOSS engine couldn't compete. I guess according to Racer X they did it because the BOSS engined funny car would be too slow to compete with the Dodge and Chevrolet boy's.

[BANDIT 1]

Mr. Bruce,

Right now the rules in NASCAR favor the Chevrolet cars, one rule change and there could be a different story. Ford has just released a new engine setup in NASCAR and we will see if it helps out.