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07-01-2004, 06:44 PM
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Super Moderator
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Join Date: May 2001
Location: Fresno,
CA
Cobra Make, Engine: KMP 184/482ci Shelby
Posts: 14,445
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Not Ranked
External oil pumps/Roller Cams/Bronze gears...
Whatta ya guys think and who makes em?
Edit: Topic has evolved into a good discussion about roller versus solid tappet cams, bronze gears...keep the info coming!
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Jamo
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07-01-2004, 07:12 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Atlanta,
GA
Cobra Make, Engine: CAV GT40 with 331 KC
Posts: 2,187
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Especially with a solid roller cam.....  |
07-01-2004, 07:15 PM
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Super Moderator
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Join Date: May 2001
Location: Fresno,
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Cobra Make, Engine: KMP 184/482ci Shelby
Posts: 14,445
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I already know what you think! 
But thanks for the clarification. 
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Jamo
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07-01-2004, 07:59 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: E BRUNSWICK N.J. USA,
Posts: 3,841
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Jamo Ask wayne Turpin He has one on his car. I would think that for another G you should go dry sump and never worry about any oil problems. Rick Lake |
07-01-2004, 08:37 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Atlanta,
GA
Cobra Make, Engine: CAV GT40 with 331 KC
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Bum advice Rick....a dry sump ends up costing at least 2G's and thats if you do all the chassis mods yourself.
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07-02-2004, 04:11 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Sep 1999
Posts: 356
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JAMO I have had external pumps on my engines before and love them. They were the wet sump versions, stockcar products and moroso make them to name a few.
thanks Dean
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07-02-2004, 05:15 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: E BRUNSWICK N.J. USA,
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Pat Buckley Pat if you are going with an external pump, what's the price? A grand with pump, pulleys, and lines. For another GRAND it all. Aviviad sells a single stage all but lines for $800. Pan modes not included. A 3 stage dry setup 3 gallon tank is 1800.00$ For a motor that has already 15-20 G in machine work and parts, what's a G. You want a better wet sump oil pump, go with Titan They make a regulatored one for $700. It flows better than a HV-HP MV-57. I am going with a drysump on my next motor. The tank will be like the orginial in the right fender. Except for a couple of line changes, wheres the chassic modes? I guess ERA is different for your car. I don't know what kind of driving Jamo does but It was an opinion, I autocross and road race, drag race only when have too. Dry sump and external pumps are easier on the cam, distrubutor, timing chain, and worth 10- to 30 hp if you believe the pro's. The advice was not BUM, just a different. Whats another grand on a 50K car.  Rick Lake
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07-02-2004, 08:42 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Atlanta,
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Cobra Make, Engine: CAV GT40 with 331 KC
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RickLake Rick I have a Kirkham like Jamo not an ERA and if you are going to put a dry sump in the right front fender like I did you are going to have to modify the footboxes and no matter how hard I tried I couldn't get someone to do it for free and I needed an oil tank I have been racing all my life too not just Run and Gun and Open Track stuff but actual wheel to wheel in everything from Formula cars to open wheel dirt cars so don't try to impress me I am just saying that you gave bum advise because your information was off by 50% maybe you should have said it was just as wild assed guess and the oil tank is going to cost at least $600 to $800 that is assuming you don't use a cheap one that will probably leak the oil lines themselves are going to set you back $600 to $700 add it up the only reason why I did it was because I was running a roller cam and I wanted as little strain put on the distributor gear as I could plus I think the filler on the top of the rf fender looked pretty good. It doesn't really make any difference what kind of driving Jamo does what he is trying to avoid is his distributor gear going away like it has done once already. I know you know everything there is to know about cars but I just wanted to give my opinion too. 
Last edited by PatBuckley; 07-02-2004 at 08:45 AM..
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07-02-2004, 10:46 AM
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Super Moderator
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Join Date: May 2001
Location: Fresno,
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Cobra Make, Engine: KMP 184/482ci Shelby
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Pat Buckley Rick Lake Pat Rick I am not sure I want to put the damn thing in from what you guys say it looks like about 1200-1300 bucks to put in a proper and good external oil pump and lines with oil pan modifications even if I use a wet sump and it sounds like you agree regarding the price of going the full dry sump route at least within a few hundred bucks I do plan on open track and autocrossing with this car but long hard drives are what I do now and while I don't mind checking the freeking distributor gear every few thousand I would prefer not hearing one of those little basturds "snap" again and think I have blown the whole damn motor but if I do it it will be a wet sump hookup at this point and I appreciate the discussion you two are having because it has detailed what will be involved here are the periods I didn't use thank you both.......................................
kanuck
Many thanks. I'll check out Moroso.
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Jamo
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07-02-2004, 12:44 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Gurnee,
IL
Cobra Make, Engine: Kirkham #259
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Hey Jamo
You might as well take my dry sump tank ... cause the car isn't getting done....
6 months and still doesn't have the suspension ..... or footbox or any of the other stuff.... ...
My patiences is drawing thin.....
Morris
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Morris
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07-02-2004, 12:49 PM
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Pat Buckley HEY Pat. YOU got screwed if you payed $600-800 for an oil tank. First an Aviaid 12 qt 9" round is 346.00$, same in Moroso is $510.00, ARE is $465.00. I didn't get a Stef price but around $450.00. If I wanted to go Cheap, Speedway is $184.00 All the same size tanks, one you add $65.00 for more inlets. Only differents is how many baffles are inside. A good used one is in the $250-300 range. I don't know everything about cars, but I ask alot of questions and don't sound like you. The prices I gave where from a current Avivad Price list. You had an ERA car, saw it in your pictures. I guess the step up makes you better than ever. I am running a roller in my next motor, FI system with a Danny Bee timing set, I don't want to have the distributor gear being torn up either. How ever, how many people know how to CORRECTLY set up Camshaft end play and check it, How many have the WRONG gear Material on there Distributor??You being a multi talent, mutli purpose racer would know this stuff. Maybe Jamo doesn't. As far as fitting the tank in the R/S fender with cut the footbox up I will let you know when it is done. We agree on multi options for the oiling system, I was just doing the same thing as you but if you are in for a foot, you might as well do the yard and know that everything is better in the long run. Hav a good afternoon Pat. Rick Lake
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07-02-2004, 12:54 PM
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Location: Northridge,
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Cobra Make, Engine: Arntz Cobra
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This thread reminds me of the acronym for "BOAT". Break Out Another Thou.
Paul
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"It doesn't have anything on it that doesn't make it go faster."
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07-02-2004, 12:58 PM
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Super Moderator
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Join Date: May 2001
Location: Fresno,
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Cobra Make, Engine: KMP 184/482ci Shelby
Posts: 14,445
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Rick
Pat had his tank custom built to perfectly fit with the modifications he made to his footbox, and with the filler coming up through the fender with an external cap. A thing of beauty.
I know only enough to know I used the right gear material for a solid roller cam...bronze, and it is a bit soft for distributor gears but certainly better than taking out the cam, which was set up as good as a guy like Boghosian can set up. Could've been a bad gear or whatever, but they are known to be somewhat disposible items. Who knows? The idea, and one I think you share, is that using an external pump (wet or dry) would relievfe some wear on the distributor gear since it simply has less to do.
Not sure if I'm going to do it right now, but I do appreciate your thoughts.
Morris
What the he!!'s going on?
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Jamo
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07-02-2004, 01:03 PM
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Jamo What gear is on the bottom of your Distributor, Steel, Bronze, or Iron? Is your cam A roller, flat tappet, Hydro? This makes a differents with the material the cam is made of. Steel gears are used on most cams, Bronze gears should be used on high pressure or volume pumps. Aluminium/ Bronze gear should be used on steel camshafts,roller and harden cams, The gear will wear out and save the camshaft gear from damage. The enplay should have been checked before the timing cover was installed. If wrong the wear on the oil pump shaft and distributor will happen faster. The hole where the distibutor should be centered on the cam gear also. I have learned this from my own screwups. Trying to save you from the same problem. Rick Lake
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07-02-2004, 01:10 PM
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Super Moderator
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Join Date: May 2001
Location: Fresno,
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Cobra Make, Engine: KMP 184/482ci Shelby
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Rick
I guess you missed the first posts in this thread and our recent ones crossed.
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Jamo
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07-02-2004, 01:12 PM
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Super Moderator
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Join Date: May 2001
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Cobra Make, Engine: KMP 184/482ci Shelby
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Paul
Ain't that the truth. 
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Jamo
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07-02-2004, 01:12 PM
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Cobra Make, Engine: CSX Cars
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Morris,
Just buy Pat's car you will be much better off.
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Cobra Make & Engine: Continuation Series Shelby Cobra, CSX 7034 the most accurately detailed Continuation Cobra to original specification since the demise of CSX 4027.
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07-02-2004, 01:52 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Gurnee,
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Cobra Make, Engine: Kirkham #259
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Allan
You're probably right on the money....
I've built 3 National Championship cars and each one we built in 90 days....
I think they got to creative and busy to take care of their customers....
I see other cars going out the door that were way behind me ...
And Bigger brakes and bigger Wheels and pedals shouldn't take this long..... even if I'm the 1st one to try this stuff out.... and I doubt I'm the first person to want this stuff....
I guess change is not good...
Morris
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Morris
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07-02-2004, 01:57 PM
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Morris
That's too bad. Maybe you are the first. They aren't race car fabricators.
Maybe a trip out there?
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Jamo
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07-02-2004, 02:09 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2003
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Jamo
Next Friday.... we'll see what's up..... maybe I should take some Keebler Elf's with me.... or African Worker Bee's
Morris
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Morris
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