Roller lifters reliability

[82ACAUTOCRAFT]

My engine builder recommends not to use roller lifters for the street, hydraulic or solids, He says the FE is an old engine not designed for rollers and one has to use the type of rollers that are attached in pair using a bar to prevent them from rotating. He says he has seen quite a few problems with those and it is not worth it for the street! Any opinion?

[Excaliber]

Sounds like he's locked into the "old school" thinking. Rollers for the FE are indeed linked in pairs. I don't know why he thinks that makes it a problem. There are EXPENSIVE, but heck thats what the "E" in FE stands for.

The Ford 302 has been using rollers since the mid 80's. They still do.

[FUNFER2]

A famed engine builder somewhere in HASTINGS Ne. (wonder who that could be) LOL ! Said after 5,000 miles or so, the lifters are used up. They don't like the low rpm street driving. That's why I went solid. Yes......rollers are $$$$$

[82ACAUTOCRAFT]

The link between the pair comes apart, the lifters rotate and you have an expensive mess in you hands! Thats what I hear!

[Cracker]

Most of this is foo-foo nonsense. What makes solid lifters (as someone stated above) a little more vulnerable in street applications is the historically poor oiling properties as idle. What has occured is the bearings break down, cease and the lifter drops it;s inards (yes, I made it up) down the engine and kaboom! However, the bar is not what typically "goes" with these.

Comp Cams is developing a solid roller lifter that increases the oil supply and direction towards the lifter wheel & bearings for low rpm lubrication. Another alternative is going hyd. roller lifter for street use in that the longevity and maitenance free characteristics make them attractive but with lower revs possible without valve float.

Another thing you need to consider is increased spring wear with rollers due to the much higher spring rates. A mild hyd. roller will help in this area since it doesn't require as much but all in all if your a casual Cobra user like most of our members just buy a small block with hyd. lifters and be "happy"!

[Jack21]

Hydraulic rollers come in most factory cars today. Less friction lost to valvetrain = more fuel economy. My CompCams roller kit came with stock Ford hydraulic roller lifters.

Roller lifters need to be kept perpendicular to the cam, and a link bar keeps them that way. Non-roller lifters must rotate on the cam, so, no link bar.

Solid rollers are generally (but not always) race only items.

A little more expensive than a non-roller hydraulic but the torque will astound you!

[82ACAUTOCRAFT]

The problem are the link bars, modern engine block are machined so the lifters won't rotate, but on older engines, you have to use link bars which could create problems!

[Hotfingrs]

First I want to say, CompCams solid rollers are pure pieces of chit. I've lost 2 engines the last 2 yrs with less than 2,000 miles and CC could care less. Their response was the lifters were designed to last 800 miles, so 2,000 miles is great. After doing a winter of research, the best solid roller lifter on the market is Crower. They have a pressurized oil system to the roller, and after 2,000 miles the lifters are just as they were new.

Cracker, your spring rates only need to be high if your running long duration, high lift solid roller. otherwise not much more than stock will be fine. I was using 630 lbs open pressure and Crower said there would be no problem with their lifters. Of course the cam had .667 lift and 264 duration @.050...have since put in new cam to bring usful rpm range down and actually am making more power now. Spings now are about 350 lbs open. I also can still turn 7500 rpm without and valve problems. I also only use the springs for 2 yrs...after the first year, I switch the intakes and exhaust with each other, since the intake is taking more of a load because of the weight of the valve. Even after 2 years the springs have lost less than 5% of their original pressure.

Almost all the T/F and Funny Car teams use Crower lifters, so that is something to say about them. Crower's aren't cheap, 700.00 for a set of lifters, but much cheaper than rebuilding an engine. BTW I run the .874 bore Ford lifter, because it has more surface area.

[Cracker]

Hotfingers is this cam big enough for high spring rats?

SOlID ROLLER

Gross Lift: Intake - .679
exhaust - .690

Duration @ .050 .266 exhaust
.260 intake

[Jack21]

Come to think if it, my hydraulic rollers don't have link bars. They have a double ended fork that sit on the flat sides of the lifer. The lifter galley spider holds the forks in place.

Extra clearancing in the lifter galley was necessary to accomodate the spider and forks, so it's best when installing a roller cam to do it when he engine is being built.

[Bruce Robles]

82autocraft-
Sounds like your engine builder, and the famous one in Nebraska, and another FE expert builder in Georgia all agree, Flat Solid Lifters or Hydraulics. Spring tension is a problem with the cam bearings with a roller set up. Granted duration and lift and all that are a consideration. What you have do is decide what you want to do with your car. Have fast realiable driver, or a little faster unreliable driver that you have tear down every 2500 miles, or a race car you tear down as your wallet will dictate.
Call Bill at Southern Automotive he will gladly talk to you and answer any questions you have about any FE Engine.

[cobra427mnsi]

Now you guys have me all worried. I just installed a Crower solid roller cam and lifters in my 427 CO. Haven't started the engine yet because it isn't in the car yet. Guess I will have to take my chances and keep an eye on it. I have way too much money in this thing to turn back now.

Paul

[82ACAUTOCRAFT]

I went with a crower solid lifter and the engine dynoed at 470 Hp and 550 lbs of torque. I forgot the RPM but I think it was at around 3400 max. Pretty good motor for the street and reliable. I am happy!

[cobra427mnsi]

82ACAUTOCRAFT

Is your Crower cam a roller? If so, how long have you had it? How many miles have you put on it?

[Bowtie]

like several have said in here, rollers do not rotate, thus you have constant wear in one single direction between the roller and cam. while a solid roller can give you outstanding lift and duration, the expense is lifespan...particularly if you are running an aggresive cam profile with subsequent high spring rate. if that is the case, i would almost recommend checking the valve lash every couple hundred miles to try and mitigate some of the lifter slap that can really take a toll on the hardened (thus brittle) cam lobe/lifter wheel. a hydro roller will let you slide on maintaining proper lash, but you still have uni-directional wear on both parts. for a street application, i highly recommend using a solid non-roller, and check lash periodically. the money you put into your motor can be much more efficiently spent on dynamite heads (which can help you make lots of HP on a non-roller pump gas engine). bottom line...in my opinion, the best place to spend the bulk of your motor budget is in the heads, and stick with a non-roller motor. nice big valves and well contoured ports will go a long way towards offsetting the loss of lift and duration. Bowtie

[82ACAUTOCRAFT]

No, solid flat! runs great, If anyone wants to see specs, let me know!

[fostereast]

I was told that with Solid Lifters you can get a faster rise on the cam profile at low lift. This would speak well for solid lifters for a street engine. It also speaks well for the budget.

[PatBuckley]

Isn't it the other way around?

[Bowtie]

a roller will give you MUCH better rise at any RPM. Rise on a flat tappet is limited because with too much rise on a flat lifter, the leading edge of the lifter will dig into the cam lobe. Roller cam lobes can look almost square in profile while flat tappet cams have to have a gradual 'ramp' to let the lifter stay in full contact with the lobe. The trade-off is the fact that a roller has to stay in line with the lobe, whereas a flat tappet cam/lifter set is ground off-set a couple degrees to spin the lifter while moving up and down, thus evening out wear on both components. i say again...unless you are a serious racer, your best bet is to dump money into good heads (and good headwork at your local speed shop)...and let em clean up your intake manifold ports too.(another item to note on a roller..you need a higher spring tension on a more aggresive cam profile to make sure the lifter stays in contact with the cam and doesn't 'float'. that higher spring tension coupled with the uni-directional wear can grind a cam round very quickly some times. prime the oil pump with an oil pump drive shaft stuck in a drill prior to break-in and use the proper assembly lube..) a flat tappet motor will last much longer than any roller will. no exceptions.( keep in mind...i am a HUGE fan of roller cams...lots of bang for the buck... it just doesn't make a good 20k-mile-a-season cruiser.) i plan to put 100k miles on my cobra...my dyno sheet says i made 507 HP on pump gas with 9.8:1 compression (max torque was 503) with solid flat tappets and only 406 cubic inches. HALF of the cost of my motor went into the heads (the flow numbers on my ProAction heads were outstanding...e-mail me if you want the numbers). So what have we learned today? Roller.... big gains in HP at the expense of longevity. Flat tappet... you won't get as much power, but you can get close if you spend a few bucks on good heads and headwork, and your motor will last much longer.

[PatBuckley]

I also like my roller cam because I don't have to rev the p!ss out of the thing to make some power like you do with other forms of power increasers....and for the street I DON'T have to use huge springs to make the cam work as I am NOT going to rev the heck out of it....so for me and my application I LIKE my roller cam on the street. I AM capable of checking the valve lash periodically and I am NOT worried about my distributor gear as I run a dry sump.



Remember too that revving the p!ss out of an engine is expensive. You need good everything from the crank on up. Simply bolting on a set of the latest CNC'ed double throw down super flowed heads can't be done in a vacuum - you better do all the other things to support revving the p!ss out of it.

Then while you're waiting for your small block high powered engine to spool up I will be done/gone.