Are these Side Oilers?

[lanmanager]

Getting conflicting information from friends. There are 2 of these in my 1967 Trojan 42'. They are cooled by antifreeze. I will probably pull these and sell them in the spring. I need something more modern. Seems a waste to have 'em in a boat.

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/ga_lan...Krn_BBt88eqSTm

[bdriver]

One of the numbers appears to be '68 427 c.i.d. Hydraulic Lifters, Side Oilier. Where are you locate in Ga?

[Excaliber]

The only pictures that are really meaningful are of the side of the block, the first three.

The front of the block, where it's got cast 352 doesn't mean anything. Virtually EVERY FE block has that number on it. The head number, C8AE-H, would date the heads, but OFTEN different heads are found on 427 blocks.

BUT, as bdriver noted, lets ASSUME these are the original heads that came with the block. In that case, sure enough, likely a 1968 427 drilled for hydraulic lifters.

Moveing on. It does have the requesite screw in freeze plugs (a MUST HAVE to be a 427 side oiler). It also has the side bolted 4 bolts mains (3 per side), again a MUST HAVE to be a 427 side oiler.

It DOES have the oil galley on the side AND the screw in allen head plugs would lead one to believe the block is ACTUALLY drilled to be a side oiler. SOME blocks were cast as such, but not DRILLED as such, leading to massive confusion such as we have here!

Most likely these ARE 427 side oilers!

[lanmanager]

Thanks guys. This boat is out of the water getting the wood bottom coated in epoxy. There are 2 of those and I thought they might be S.O.'s. The one in the pictures is a reverse rotation. They are most likely coming out this spring. They have always been cooled with antifreeze and fresh water. I don't know how many hours are on them but I do know the max rpm for these (limited by giant 24" propellers) was 3800. I want to pull them out because:
1) they would sell for more than a rebuild 4-bolt 454 with the same hp.
2) The rat motor is easier to get marine parts for.
3) 427 SO's belong in a Cobra, not a Trojan

When I pull them and try to sell them, should I have a shop disassemble and vat them and verify no cracks & bore sizes?

I assume those are the low riser heads as this thing was only rated for 300 hp from inteceptor. Any ideas?


Also bdriver how could a 1968 engine be in an 1967 boat? There is 1967 stamped all over the boat.

[bdriver]

lanmanager - Good point - the marking that I was referring to were on the heads not on the block - assuming they were on a 427 - that would make it what I outlined.

As for how you got them on a 1967 boat - you would have to answer that one - please keep in mind they are your pictures.

Picture shows C8AE-H on the heads - I am assuming that you have them on a 427 - these head might equally be 390/428 heads.

On the heads, C8AE-H were also used on 360’s and 428’s but once they are removed they all become 428 heads.

[Double Venom]

lanmanager,
'68 engines in a '67 boat? That's easy and in the motor / boat world not uncommon at all. Your Trojan was probably at the end of the 67' run when the motors became available. They simply put the 'new' motors in at time of delivery.

I've got a '32 Trojan Sportfisherman, with twin 351's. Be glad to trade you motors Heck, I'd even trade you boats!

DV

[Excaliber]

Of course it's your call but if it were me:

I'd keep the engines intact, no disassembly. I'd simply state the approximate number of hours and history (as you know it) on the motors and market them. Maybe e-bay, maybe not, thats a tricky one!

It just opens a can of worms to have the motors torn down and an expense you may not recover in the final sale. As DV said, no problem having later model heads, from the factory or replaced at some point during the life of the boat. Heck for you know the blocks could have been bored also.

Make no promises, state the history as you know it, offer them for sale. OR, tear them down, VERIFY everything and sell them "in a box"? Tough call.

[FFR428]

And that being said I'd follow Excalibers advise and sell them whole with your info at hand. Having to tear them down and go through them will be an extra expence to you unless the proposed buyer agrees to pay for half or all of the inspection. Then you need to get someone to look at them OR bring them to someone which could be a hassle and taking more of your time unless you can do this yourself. Either way I'd think they would still bring the same money from what I've seen in the 427 market today. But one thing is clear POSITIVE ID is needed to clarify they are sideoilers before advertising. They have all the tell tale focal points of a sideoiler. One question... do sideoilers have a threaded plug in the front of the block where the sideoiler galley was machined? I'm pretty sure they do and can't remember exactly but perhaps some here knows. Also I'd think the oil pressure releif valve being in place and machined would be a factor also. I'd say those would be the clincher or at least give you a better idea at best. JMO, G.

[USrowboy]

think about coating both sides of the bottom with epoxy. if you don't, you run the risk of having one side of the planking "breathe" and one side that can't. the result is splitting of the wood and epoxy and a barrier that keeps the moisture in the wood.... a sure recipe for dry rot!

get rid of the engines and install some oarlocks too!
: )

[mr0077]

Look for a machine screw plug down below the "352" on the FRONT of the blocks (down by the oil pan, near the oil filter adapter plate). This is the front plug for the "side oiler" oil gallery. If they have one, and no one has meddled with them, they surely are side oilers.

[Excaliber]

I would also pull a valve cover to see if the rocker arms are adjustable, if so, most likely solid lifters. But if they are hydraulic lifters AND the block is a 427 side oiler, then it HAS to be a late 67-68 year model.

In my opinion the most valubale 427 side oiler block would the late model drilled for hydro lifters. You then have a choice on which kind of camshaft you might want to run. Roller hydraulic, flat tappet hydraulic, or solid\roller lifters. With the older block you can ONLY run solid lifters.

[SCOBRAC]

No... boat engines are not side oilers. whether or not they are drilled for hydraulic lifters they are center oilers, even if they had the hump it was likely not functional.

Side oilers were cast from high nickle alloy, employed a four bolt main and had screw in freeze plugs.

[Excaliber]

There is a fellow here in the islands who has drilled out "side oiler" blocks, cast as such, but never "drilled" as such.

I heard those blocks were service blocks destined for agriculture, oil rigs, industry and such. I wonder if that is similiar to the boat engine thing? Cast as side oilers, but never drilled as such.

This is one reason why it is SO difficult to "nail down" a "side oiler". I also understand the service blocks did NOT have any numbers or ID on them. What about boat blocks, for ID numbers?

There have been a number of "boat" counter rotation engines for sale, here and on e-bay, that were clearly "boat" motors AND were offered for sale as genuine "side oilers".

[lanmanager]

Well, once I pull them and can see the casting numbers on the blocks I'll know more. The confusion started when I heard comments from local folks that were similar to SCOBRAC'S. Some of the comments were ford ran out of truck motors and shipped SO's because that's what they had. Others said boat builders would NEVER pay the increased cost of a SO. I just won't know untill I pull them. Also I don't even know if the port side engine has the hump or is drilled.

USrowboy - I have sanded 40 years of bottom paint off the bottom. I have cut out the seams to about 3/16" wide and filled them with thickened epoxy. My next step is to monel staple 12oz glass to the bottom and wet that out with epoxy as well. That should keep water off the wood planks. Also, the lowest part of the bilge will be epoxy sealed too so water that runs down there can't soak in. Epoxy can stretch 4-8% while mahogany will swell a maximum of 7% across the grain. And 7% is the swelling caused by immersion in water. I suspect that temp/humidity swelling would be less. I am following the west system. They have about 30 trojans this big under thier belt and some of them have been going for nearly 20 years without any problems.

But I digress. This is a car forum...

Thanks for the information guys. I'll let you folks know when I pull the 427's and sell them.


Many thanks

Mark

[Excaliber]

Those "numbers" your looking for may not be there. Some of the late model blocks did not have numbers. Mine is like that, 68 side oiler. How do I know? I have the motor out and at the machine shop right now.

[rritchey]

SCOBRAC's post is correct BUT...... I've never seen one of the "cast as a SO but not drilled" blocks that had the plugs in the oil passage on the side of the block. The ones that were cast with the provisions but not drilled usually do not have the plugs in the side of the block. It is entirely possible these are not even the original blocks for the boat. I've bought real side oilers out of boats before, but they were not original to the boat. I had 2 hydraulic lifter side oiler blocks that turned out to be the biggest pieces of crap I ever dealt with. Never had a problem with a hydraulic center oiler though. The easiest way to tell is put an allan wrench in one of the plugs and see if oil runs out. That should clear it up for us all.

[lanmanager]

There is one somewhat similar to mine on Ebay right now:
item # 7933744926

$2500!! Isn't that a good price? No bids though..

[Excaliber]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...tem=7933744926

The counter rotation engine will always bring a lower price, more complex and expense to set up correctly. He won't ship, so he's really limited his pool of buyers.

Interesting comments about standard bore and stroke, how would he know? Virtually imossible to mic the bore with the rods and crank in place. Probably a pure guess at the stroke. Hmmmm,,,, I think it would have been more accurate to say, "It appears the block has never been bored or stroked".

$2500 may well be a good price, but how would you get it from "there" to "here" if he won't ship?

[rritchey]

Did you take one of the little allen head plugs out yet?

[lanmanager]

rritchey not yet.. Been trying to get the boat back in the water. Boat yard is complaining that it's been out for over 30 days and they are doubling the daily rate.
Ouch! Can't get that baby back in the water fast enough!

Mark