Mechanical Rooler Lifters

[Clois Harlan]

How many of you FE guys are running Mechanical Roller Lifters with a Steel Roller Cam and Dual Springs?

Where did you get your best deal?

I have been looking a a Comp Cams kits #K33-782-9 and # K33-781-9 and the best price I have found is just under $900.00 at Summit. The kit comes with mechanical roller lifters, steel billit cam, and dual valve springs. I will still need to buy a new steel MSD distributer gear at around $60.00 to go with it. I already have the Sig Erson roller rockers and the heavey duty Crane ball and cup push rods.

Clois

[Anthony]

You will get about the best price from summit. Get the crower solid rollers with pressure oiling. Comp cams just came out with their version, but crower has been making them for awhile, and I think they may be a better part.

Get the crane billet cam gear. It's actually powdered metal formed, with impregnated bronze from what I have heard, and is probably better than a true billet gear.

[PatBuckley]

I agree with Anthony....and Dave

[Hotfingrs]

Clois,

I would check with Crower and see if they have the rollers you want. 2002 and 2003 I used CompCams mechanical roller lifers, and broke and/or wore out the lifters. First year broke the bottom off one, and had a couple others without bearings in the rollers. Second year, broke bottom off of 2 lifters and had another 4 without bearings. Called CC and told them that I had around 2,000 on their lifters, and they told me I was doin good, as the lifters should only last 800 miles and the springs 1000.

Spent last winter talking to different manufacturers, trying to find the problem. Basically was told by all that mechanical lifters won't live on the street under 3,000 rpm. Talked to Crower, and they have the HPPO option that pressure oils the roller, and their lifters would live, and also stand up to the spring pressures that I was running. Well after being in there for a year, and 3-4000 miles, they show no wear at all.

Also the literature that comes with the lifters says there is no need to have these rebuilt every year....like the "competition" These lifters aren't cheap at around 700.00 for a set, but it sure beats the cost of rebuilding an engine 2 yrs in a row.

[Hotfingrs]

Also agree with what Anthony said, I went with the Crane roller cam.

[afret]

Crane's roller lifters have pressure fed oiling to the roller bearings also. I'm using the Crane Pro Series solid roller lifters and have no problems with about 1000 street miles so far running about 185 lbs on the seat. If you have the non hydraulic pre 68 solid lifter 427 block the pin oiling option would not make any difference though.

[dlampe]

What are the part numbers on the crane rollers you are talking about. Are those different than what Clois is looking at? I have a 1968 Hyd. SO block in the build process right know and was VERY interested in your comments. I guess this would require removing my hyd. lifter oiling system plugs that have been installed to run the solid lifters?

[Clois Harlan]

Great input, and it is good to hear about Comps problem before I put them into what I intend to be as bullit proof an engine as I can afford. I am also interested in the Crower part numbers. Actually, the Crower lifters are only about $250 more than the Comps. and a lot less when you factor in the probable rebuild.

I am off to the Crower web site now.

Clois

[afret]

dlampe, the Crane rollers are #35542, the same as for the 385 series engines. If you want to use the oil from the lifter galley, I think you will have to unplug them or just rely on oil from splash. In my case (428) I had to restrict the oil since I lost some oil pressure when I switched to the roller cam due to a lot of oil going to the roller bearings. When I was running flat tappets hardly any oil got past the lifters. (I checked this with the intake off running the oil pump). I put .05 or so size restrictors in both lifter passages. I also checked with a drill motor running the oil pump with the intake off and there was a lot of oil still getting to the rollers and I got just about all the oil pressure back.
Forgot to add that I was considering Crower lifters with the HIPPO option but changed my mind. A lot of people seem to be happy with the Severe Duty lifters but I'm not sure about their standard roller lifters. A moderator on the Mustangs and More website with a record holding Mustang superstocker said he tried roller lifters from most of the different manufacturers and really liked the Crane Pro Series the best so I thought I would give them a try and have been happy with them so far. JMHO

[Excaliber]

Solid rollers? THATS why I have my engine in pieces going through a major re-build.

I'm done with solid rollers! Flat tappet for me!

[Clois Harlan]

The more I talk to people about these mechanical rollers the more I believe I will go back to 300# spring and something like a .600 lift cam.

I have some Chevy friends that have experienced the same thing on their engines. Seems as though the problems stems for low
RPM's. Two of my local friends running SBC have had major rebuilds just like Ernie due to their mechanical rollers letting go.

My complaint with my last cam set up was lack of higher RPM's (over 6000) but I think I can remedy that with a slightly higher lift cam (old cam was a 571 lift 232 dur) maybe if I go to something in the 590/ 595 lift range and 250/255 duration I can get where I need to be and save about $500.00 in the process.

I intend to talk to the folks at Comp, Crane, and Crower this week before I make any decisions. I think when you run at the edge of any envelope you always stand a chance going to far or not enough. There is always going to be a line not to cross.


Clois

[RICK LAKE]

Clois Harlan Check Smith brothers for your pushrods, I think they are cheaper that crane, and get the correct lenght also. If the block has been squared and the heads slaved to be trued than the length on the pushrod could be too long and the rocker is not pushing on the center of the valve. Clois I know you autocross and roadrace, How big is this cam? You would be better to go with a cam that matches the max flow of your heads, bigger cam is not always better. What is the biggest track you are racing and what is the max rpm? Build a 500 motor with 10.5 to one compession. 600lbs tork 500hp 6750 rpm max, you will have an endurance motor that will last all season with a little maintainance. Drinking cool ones with Lew is better than wrenching after every run. Change the rear ratio to match the max rpm and the tracks longest straight run. If you are going to more racing get rid of the windshield and get a short lexan race shield. You could pivot the windshield on the mounts like they did in the old days. My two cents Rick Lake

[RACER X #99]

Clois,
I would find out from the cam manufacturer exactly which dist. gear is reccomended with your cam.

I made the mistake of buying the crane steel gear for my MSD without consulting the cam manufacturer. I wiped out both dist. gear and cam gear in less than 100 miles. Both were steel. I since went with the bronze gear and keep a spare with me as I expect it to only last about a years worth of track time ( about 1000 miles)

Hope to see you next season at WGI.

Roger

[COBRAMAN 484]

I'm with Excaliber, I have a pre 68 block. I lost a roller on 9/13/04 when I took the motor apart I found three more on the way out. No more rollers for me. I got the car back togeather last night and am going on a shake down ride today weather permitting.

COBRAMAN 484

[RICK LAKE]

RacerX #99 Roger try Greg D at 803 730 7574 He makes polymer gears for nascar that are stronger that steel. I have one going in motor 2 that I am going to try. 3 notes what is the camshaft end play in your motor? Do you have a roller plate on the front of the cam to keep it from moving? Oiling for the gears, do you have a groove or supply line the sprays oil where the 2 gears meet? At low rpm there in no or little oil going to these parts causing gear wear out. You might want to look into changing this on your motor and this would cut back on gears. Rick Lake

[Hotfingrs]

Clois,

I was running 605 # open pressure, every one I talked to, said that was to much pressure for the street. When I talked to Crower, the rep asked if I was happy with the springs I was using, I said yes, and he said keep using them then. I did lower my pressure to 450# range. Still turns 7500 prm no problem. Gotta be a reason why most topfuel and funny cars run Crower lifters.....

[RICK LAKE]

cobraman 484 Can you shoot a couple of pictures to see what they look like? You didn't say what the valve lash was on your motor? Poor oiling system is what kills these lifters. If not pressure oiled they will not last long. I even question the oil pressure ones. Ilding kills these lifters faster then anything. You may want to talk to your machinest and ask about a spray kit that will put oil right on the cam and rollerwheel. If the lash is too larger you are pounding the wheel out on the cam and causing the same problem. Do you have a preoiler like a accump 3 qt. before you start the motor. I think if you read or talk to any of the lifter tech people they will say to make sure you don't drystart the motor. I know Jessel does. Excaliber had too much valve lash and broke a shaft in his motor. Yours is not the same thing. Rick Lake

[Clois Harlan]

Good points to consider from everyone. My plan is to talk to at least a couple of the cam mfg's and then compare notes to see if they are all saying the same thing. I expect they will probably be recommending similar set-ups. More is not always better but I believe I was leaving something on the table with my other cam. My problem was not with my cam but my rod bearings. I believe I had two years and to many hard miles without changing my bearings.

As I said before I stretched some preventative maintenance on my engine 15 minutes to far. I spun the #1 bearing again and ended up twisting a rod off which pushed the #1 piston against through the #1 cylinder wall and forced debris out my freeze plug, then (I expect) the flopping rod went up and broke my cam in three places, broke two solid lifters, bent most of my valves, and some of my push rods. All this was at about 6500 RPM's going through the straight away at Texas Motor Speedway passing a Corvette ZO6 and a Viper (we were three wide and I was within feet of the outside wall when all this happened). Just another note here about my engine, it was pulling hard until it came apart so maybe my cam was doing what it should.

Longest race track by far is Road America (over 4 miles), fastest race track is Texas, most fun is all of them plus Hallet and Gateway. I really want to go to Watkins Glen, VIR, Mid-Ohio, and some of the West Coast Tracks some day.

Clois

[Woodz428]

As for what Top Fuel/Funny cars use as some point of reference. Whenever you make an association like that, you fail to take into consideration that they are torn down between each 1/4 mile run and inspected and anything that needs replaced is.If that's tha kind of maintenance you wish to perform, then make sure you use all the pieces they do. You might also want to get a Sponsor, because the price will start adding up,quickly. I use Top Fuel/Funny car parts as reference for building a Top Fuel or Funny car,not a reliable street engine.

[Morris]

Clois

Titanium valves and 700 lift...... and Mech lifters

Morris