removal of brake balance bar

[bulletbrown]

I have a shell valley cobra kit with a brake balance bar system, does any one make a kit to replace this. This is a very poor system and Im looking to install a dual master cyl.
ANY HELP!!!!!!

[flipper35]

I have dual MCs on my Shell Valley. But mine came set up for duals. I only replaced the Girlings with Wilwoods. Used the stock SV pedal and balance bar setup and it works very well. Though Idid have the replace the spherical bearing in the pedal the balance bar goes through.

I didn't know they came with a single master cylinder.

[bulletbrown]

To, Flipper 35 , they do have the dual master cyl. so does mine and I want to remove this out dated system.

[RACER X #99]

Bullet,
I think you are mistaken, the dual MC with balance bar is used on almost every car in competition trim. But there is nothing wrong with what you want for everyday street driving.

[relaxinrob]

Keep the dual MC's and take the pedal out and have brass bushings milled to fill the void of the balance bar......then use a proportioning valve on the rear brake system. We just did this to an Everrett Morrison and it works so much better!

[Jon Miller]

Just when I was ready to spend $65 on a balance bar............

So what's not to like about a balance bar brake setup??????

I too have an Everett Morrison, and I'm in the process of designing a floor mount pedal assembly for it. So far I've just got the remote cable for the bar, but if I'm missing something here I hope one of you guys would set me straight before I blow this months parts budget on stuff I will not like.

Thanks!
Jon

[o'brien]

Is a proportioning valve and a balance bar the same thing except you can change brake bias from the seat with a adjustable balance bar?

[relaxinrob]

basically the same except the balance bar has a lot more play in it. If you want to be able to adjust the brake bias from the cokpit, just mount the proportioning valve in the floor.

[bulletbrown]

The reason I want to replace the balance bar system is it doesnt work well, I had three pros adjust it , two worked for hours adj it , After a short time it loses its settings. It is just obsolete and a pain to work with. I called Shell Valley Cobra and they said they were looking to replace it in the future. I had been told that a Subaru master cyl. has been used to replace it. ????

[relaxinrob]

If you want power brakes, then go with the Subaru setup, it is compact and effective, but if you just want good solid brakes, get rid of the balance bar, build brass bushings for the pedal and maybe change you master cylinders to Wildwood (call them to find out what size you need). You will be very pleased with this setup.

[scottj]

Originally posted by Jon Miller


Just when I was ready to spend $65 on a balance bar............

So what's not to like about a balance bar brake setup??????

I too have an Everett Morrison, and I'm in the process of designing a floor mount pedal assembly for it. So far I've just got the remote cable for the bar, but if I'm missing something here I hope one of you guys would set me straight before I blow this months parts budget on stuff I will not like.

Thanks!
Jon

There is nothing that's not to like about a properly designed dual master/balance bar set up and many reasons to like it.

That said, my Everett-Morrison pedal assemble had some problems. First the pedal is very close to the masters which requires that the push rods need to be shortened about 1 inch. That in itself wouldn't be a problem except that the pedal is too wide for the master cylinder bore spacing. So, instead of the rods running parallel to each other and concentric with the cylinder bores they ran on an angle. The shorter rods only increased the angle. The result was a system that was hard to adjust and would bind up. In a short time the binding cause the threads on the balance bar to be damaged.

After modifing the pedal assembly to place the rods concentric with the bores and replacing the EM balance bar with a Tilton balance bar, the system worked flawlessly.

If the Shell Valley assembly is having problems, then the "Pros" should have been able to diagnose the problems. These specific problems are not a reason to condemn the dual masters/ balance bar design in general.

Scott

[Jon Miller]

I was looking at a friend's Formula Ford and noticed that he had both cockpit adjustable balance bar AND proportioning valve. At the time I made some kind of a "belt and suspenders" comment. He had no idea why it was setup that way, that's just how it was when he bought it.

After what Bullet said maybe this is the way to go.

-Jon

[Dirty Harry]

I've got the SV balance bar setup and I'm using Tilton master cylinders. It works well, except I still have just a tiny bit too much rear bias under really severe braking, so I may put in a proportioning valve to give further adjustability.

[sirelesar]

I just put in dual master cylinders with a balance bar, and it REALLY woke up the rear end....

Now I have to fix the fiberglass on the front end. Be careful!
Darren

[DaveR]

Scott and Jon,

This is a wierd thread! Do a little research and you will find that the balance bar is the "optimal" system. When I bought my Wilwood brakes the written instructions said exactly that. However, they also say that most people use the "less than optimal" proportioning valve solution because it is easier to install. I spent many hours switching my system from single piston/proportioning valve to dual piston/balance bar. It is also safer because of independent circuits. Good luck.

[scottj]

Originally posted by DaveR


Scott and Jon,

This is a wierd thread! Do a little research and you will find that the balance bar is the "optimal" system.

Dave,

Thanks for the advise, but your preaching to the chior.

What I find wierd is that this is in "FE Talk", and FEs are a topic about which I know little. Is it possible that FE equiped Cobras need LESS than "optimal" brakes?
Scott

[bulletbrown]

Scott and John , I will take a Que , and check the list of things Scott found ,it seems to me a very problem prone system . with a lot of variables for failures. But I will try, try again. It has a great deal of polarity , meaning you like it or don't
But I'm learning!

[scottj]

Originally posted by bulletbrown


Scott and John , I will take a Que , and check the list of things Scott found ,it seems to me a very problem prone system . with a lot of variables for failures. But I will try, try again. It has a great deal of polarity , meaning you like it or don't
But I'm learning!

Bullet,

I disagree that it is a problem prone system. If you used a well engineered pedal assembly like a Tilton or Wilwood you wouldn't have problems. The problem is that properly engineered assemblies such as those don't fit in the foot boxes of most of these cars. So, we get something designed for "fit" first and "function" second, or so it seemed in my case. Trust me, I was very frustrated until I finally ripped the pedals out and built my own, including the throttle pedal. Good Luck.
Scott

[bulletbrown]

Scott , I looked at your address; I need you to look at mine, bobb@bobjass.com.
thank for the ideas!

[Dave Bermani]

I also built a Shell Valley kit. I'd never seen the balance bar setup before and it just looked too weird to me. So I modified the bracket to hold a single MC and added a proportioning valve inline to the rear brakes. The valve knob comes thru the floor just in front of the drivers seat. It works for me.

Dave