428 Engine build for my GT500 - Page 2

Anthony · #21 (**permalink**) 03-27-2005, 06:05 AM

Not if he's putting on the heads upside down as well, as they will then match the valve reliefs.

musclecargt500 · #22 (**permalink**) 03-27-2005, 06:53 PM

I have never built an FE before. Are you serious about the pistons being upside down?

Anthony · #23 (**permalink**) 03-27-2005, 07:12 PM

The valves, as positioned in the head, are not parallel with the bores of the block, but are slightly tilted such that the valve stem tips are tilted slightly towards the center of the engine. As the valve is pushed down, the top edge of the valve will hit the top of a flat top piston first, and therefore require that the valve relief posckets of the piston are situated at the tops of the pistons not the bottoms.

Now if you are running a reverse flow head, like on '60's era F1/indy engines, where the intake runners were on the sides of the block, and the exhaust came out near the top center of the engine, you could run true 180 degree headers for maximum exhaust efficiency, and in this case, you would need to put the heads on upside down, and therefore, position the pistons with the valve reliefs down like in your picture.

musclecargt500 · #24 (**permalink**) 03-27-2005, 07:17 PM

Thanks for the posts. I feel like a real bonehead. I just looked at my heads and saw exactly what you described. I am glad I posted the pictures as I might have gotten further along and really had a disaster. In my defense, I didn't have the heads to compare when assembling. I will get those turned around as soon as I get a new set of sprolocks. Todd

musclecargt500 · #25 (**permalink**) 03-27-2005, 07:28 PM

It was suggested earlier in this post that I run oil restrictors in the Edelbrock heads. Is that really necessary for an engine that will only see manily street use and not raced? Or does the FE have a flaw in the oiling system and this MUST be done? Thanks.

Bruce Edwards · #26 (**permalink**) 03-27-2005, 08:17 PM

The pistons should show you by way of an arrow or a stamping that will say FRONT. Did you check when you installed them?
Plus the instruction sheet that came with the pistons should show how to install the valve notch. Or is all else fails an engine HOW TO BUILD book would come in very handy.
One other small matter. Did you install the rods the right way? Yes it matters.

musclecargt500 · #27 (**permalink**) 03-27-2005, 08:28 PM

The rods are installed properly. I do have the Steve Christ book on building Big Block Fords. The Ross pistons do not have any markings or indicators as to the front orientation. I am familiar with the dots and arrows sometimes used but these don't have them.

Bruce Edwards · #28 (**permalink**) 03-27-2005, 08:46 PM

Just wanted to be sure you had the chamfer on the rods faced the right way. Sometimes if the pistons get installed wrong on the rods people turn the rods not understanding that there is a right and wrong way.
Seen a lot of crazy things in engines over the years.
As for oil restrictors if you are not running a solid cam don't bother. Racers installed them to cut down on oil to the valvetrain at higher speeds. If you are not racing don't bother.
Just my two cents.

rritchey · #29 (**permalink**) 03-28-2005, 07:09 AM

musclecargt500,

Man I hate to see your pistons in upside down, especially since they are double spiro lock. It is an easy mistake to make since the pistons don't have a front marking. I'm sorry you have to pull it all apart now, I know how satisfying it feels when you finally get that last piston in. Anyway, if you had your machinist assemble the pistons and rods, take them back to him because you will spend HOURS on those spiro locks. Every one needs to be taken off and turned around. You can also double check to be sure you have the rings on right - they have a top and a bottom as well (at least most of them do). By the way, as long as you do not damage any of the bearings there is no need to buy new ones. Keep it up and be sure to post more pictures as you top it out.

musclecargt500 · #30 (**permalink**) 03-28-2005, 10:25 PM

Thanks for the advice. Yea, I called the machine shopo today and ordered a new set of spirolocks. My friend who is assisting me in the build has been building engines for years. Just not building any FE's. I should have new pics to post later this week when the pistons are in properly.

Excaliber · #31 (**permalink**) 03-29-2005, 12:59 AM

Those spiral locks!! Oh man, those kicked my butt taking the old ones off to fit new pistons to my rods. I swear next time I'm buying some kind of "special tool" if there is such a thing to deal with them.

I did a "trial assembly" with my engine and then tore it back down for final assembly. Heads, cam, rockers the whole ball of wax. I checked valve to piston clearance at max lift by using modeling clay on the top of the piston. My new pistons are not marked "front" or have an arrow or mark. I had to "think it through" to figure out which way they went.

My engine build thread:
http://www.clubcobra.com/forums/t62454-30&pagenumber=1

musclecargt500 · #32 (**permalink**) 03-31-2005, 07:52 PM

Now, that's more like it! Pistons in correctly. Now, I have to clearance the windage tray for the back 2 ARP main studs. I ordered that and a few other items from DSC. Something weird though, the crank woodruff key is too big. It measures 1 3/4 inch long. It will not fully seat because the slot in my 1U crank is too short. Anybody else see this problem or did Dennis send me the wrong key? I am talking about the key that registers the timing gear. The width is ok but I think it should be about 1 5/8" long. Anyone??? I can't get the cam degreed in until I get this key problem solved.

Excaliber · #33 (**permalink**) 03-31-2005, 11:13 PM

My 428 crank (427 block) measures 1 and 6/32 from the face of the crank timing gear.

Excaliber · #34 (**permalink**) 03-31-2005, 11:14 PM

Just seeing if the parts will fit with a mock-up in the living room!

bud4660 · #35 (**permalink**) 04-01-2005, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by musclecargt500

Now, that's more like it! Pistons in correctly. Now, I have to clearance the windage tray for the back 2 ARP main studs. I ordered that and a few other items from DSC. Something weird though, the crank woodruff key is too big. It measures 1 3/4 inch long. It will not fully seat because the slot in my 1U crank is too short. Anybody else see this problem or did Dennis send me the wrong key? I am talking about the key that registers the timing gear. The width is ok but I think it should be about 1 5/8" long. Anyone??? I can't get the cam degreed in until I get this key problem solved.

Looking better!!! Cut the key down the length it needs to be to work and go with it. Before you cut the windage tray. See if you oil pan is going to clear the rear studs. I had to have my rear main cap machined down and use shorter studs to fix that problem. Or you can use the regular main cap bolts there.
I have a picture I can post once I resize it.
Bud

bud4660 · #36 (**permalink**) 04-01-2005, 02:33 PM

See if you can tell what i'm talking about looking at the rear main here.

DuckRyder · #37 (**permalink**) 04-01-2005, 02:44 PM

I had a heck of a time finding a key to fit. I never did find a new one, I ended up cleaning up the old one and reusing it.

The 1/4 square isn't a cake walk either.

musclecargt500 · #38 (**permalink**) 04-01-2005, 02:52 PM

I see what you mean. I am going to test fit the oil pan tonight and see what I need to do. I went over to a local engine rebuilder and got a correct size key for the crankshaft. Man, this has been a serious learning experience. And, this is a very informative post. It is amazing how wide the spectrum of different FE builds. Looks like I came in at a good time to build one with the aftermarket parts available now. Seems that some years ago much now was not available then. Thanks to everyone for the replies to my post

musclecargt500 · #39 (**permalink**) 04-01-2005, 08:19 PM

Well, I ended up using the back 2 main cap bolts to clear the windage tray and oil pan. I have a new problem. When I was installing the oil pump drive shaft, I realized the Tenneman clip did not hold the shaft in the block. The hole in the block is larger than the ring. With a brown and sharpe caliper the ring outside diameter measures .510". It will fall through the hole in the block. Is my block shot or what? The distributor shaft is supposed to be snug in this hole (my understanding). I didn't have the distributor for testing but the shaft on the distributor is much less than .500". My friend told me the hole in the block should be ~7/16". Please tell me I am missing something here. WHY WOULD ANYONE DRILL THIS BIGGER? Keith Craft, are you out there? Ever seen such a thing?

DuckRyder · #40 (**permalink**) 04-01-2005, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by musclecargt500

The hole in the block is larger than the ring. With a brown and sharpe caliper the ring outside diameter measures .510". It will fall through the hole in the block. Is my block shot or what? The distributor shaft is supposed to be snug in this hole (my understanding). I didn't have the distributor for testing but the shaft on the distributor is much less than .500". My friend told me the hole in the block should be ~7/16". Please tell me I am missing something here. WHY WOULD ANYONE DRILL THIS BIGGER? Keith Craft, are you out there? Ever seen such a thing?

Sounds like it might be an FT block, these have a larger hole. Federal Mogul makes a bushing for it.

ARP's main cap bolts will clear the oil pan (barely) if you are running a CJ windage tray and the two gaskets. If you are concerned about the stock bolts.

Your build is going about like mine, remind me to go on my ATI Balencer rant when its all said and done.



FE Forums sponsored by Keith Craft Inc.