FE injection manifold

[750hp]

Does anyone make or adapt a staggered runner injection intake for the FE that is similar to the Kinsler / Crower intakes that graced the big block Chev motors in the McLaren Canam cars?

[RICK LAKE]

750hp Craig I have been looking for the same thing. The only motors that had these manifolds made for where the 427SOHC and the 427TP. I was hoping someone would make one in kevlar. I am told it is a spacing problem between the intake valves which is why they where not made. I am sure a good machinist could make something work. Dove has a 90@ FI system for the tunnel heads. I know a would love a system that would fit under the hood. Earl said that Dove sold the last to manifold to someone in Florida. I have not been able to get a lead on this person. If I find something out I will drop you a line. Rick Lake

[Anthony]

From my understanding, the staggard, i.e. unequal length intake bells, ram tubes, made more power than equal length tubes. I don't understand the physics why.

Numerous companies made mechanical fuel injection intakes for all types of FE heads (MR, HR, TP, SOHC) in the '60's. You can make any of these have unequal length runnners, but for the most part, they came with equal length runners. Some of the manufacturers were Hilborn and Algon. Holman-Moody made some custom FI intakes as well.

Check out my gallary.

[Steve R]

My guess is that on the BBC, they are staggered due to the intake runners being "paired" Ford engines have equidistant runners.

[Anthony]

Steve, I don't think it is that. It's true that the BBC has two different style runners, which was done intentionally for various reasons by the designer in 1964. He has since admitted his error.

I think it has something to do with the air flow into the top of the runners/bells, and the ram pulse generated.

[Anthony]

Here is a link to Kinsler FI systems, and some pictures of some intakes.

http://www.kinsler.com/i_manifolds.htm

You'll notice that the upright BBC have the staggard bells, but the cross ram doesn't. The upright BBF, with symmetrical port heads, also has the staggard bells, though not as drastic differences as the chevy. The upright BBC with symmetrical port heads have the same height.

I don't relly know for sure, but if you were to call them, I'm sure they know why.

Also, if you find an old FI intake, they will completely refurbish it for you, or do an EFI conversion to it.

[Steve R]

Anthony,

It's true that the BBC has two different style runners, which was done intentionally for various reasons by the designer in 1964.

I do believe the runners are paired as a result of the head bolts. the chevy engines have 5 bolts clamping each cyl vs 4 on the Ford.
Steve

[Anthony]

He designed the runners to be siamesed for temperature reasons, as they shared a common wall between them both in the intake and the beginning aspect of the head, it kept the incoming charge cooler and denser. The intake ports were also designed to have as short as possible runners for better high rpm flow. The exhaust ports were I believe again designed separate / symmetrical for heat reasons/dissapation. With siamesed intake, and separate/symmetrical exhausts, you end up with slightly different intake port configurations, which flow slightly differently, which is the most impolrtant factor, but the designer said if they would have known that in 1964, they would have designed the head with symmetrical intake ports. He designed the slightly canted valves to get better flow than the standard in line valve arrangement, but without the heavy production/machining costs of a true hemi head, as the engine had to be a production engine to go NASCAR racing. Interesting story.


Ford saw the success with this head design, and copied it for their Boss 302/351C, and 429/460 head design, but with symmetrical intake port design. I believe Ford also copied the short skirt design of the chevy engine for their new BB. In my eyes, the BBF is Ford's version of the BBC.

I know chevy and Smokey experimented with canted valve heads for the SBC, but they did not make more power unless they were at high rpms, thus were never made as production engine. However, NASCAR has encouraged the design of canted heads for the SBC and SBF engines for high rpm breathing.

[Steve R]

Anthony,
I haven't heard the "cooling effect of paired runners" explaination before. Damn, somewhere around here I have Bill "Grumpy" Jenkins book "The Chevrolet Racing Engine" It is the best book I have ever read as to the high performace Chevy small block. Do you own it??
Steve

[Anthony]

No.

[Steve R]

get it.

[Slow8]

Originally posted by Anthony




I think it has something to do with the air flow into the top of the runners/bells, and the ram pulse generated.

Thats the way that I understand it. The longer runners make better power at lower RPM the short ones better at high RPM, so by mixing and matching they could spread the breathing tendancies of both accross the RPM range.

[Steve R]

Hmmm, interesting explaination.

[Lew Ledyard]

"Thats the way that I understand it. The longer runners make better power at lower RPM the short ones better at high RPM, so by mixing and matching they could spread the breathing tendancies of both accross the RPM range."

That is what thought too. The Bob Sharp Datsun in-line 6s in the late '70s or early '80s used different length horns for this reason.

[Carnut427]

The big block chevy heads have two different port volumes. Half the ports are longer (therefore more volume) than the others. This is why they "stagger jet" the carbs in racing applications. By placing a short stack on a larger volume port and a long stack on the smaller volume port, the intake charge is equal for all cylinders, as the distance from the intake valve to the air cleaner opening, or in this case stack opening, affects the engine's operating range. Anyone here remember the "Sonoramic" Chrysler 413s with the ram intake with tubes so long they went over the valve covers, placing the carb outside of the heads? These actually kept the torque (lots of it) in the lower RPM range. Shorter rams are better for upper RPM usage. It actually gets more complicated than that, but this is enough to answer the question.
Any engine with equal-length intake ports, meaning most engines, need equal-length stacks.
Dan

[Ibr8k4vetts]

Might want to check this site http://twminduction.com/v8_kits/v8_kits-FR.html

[Sizzler]

How much do you want to spend?

You could just put this (currently on ebay @$320):



into this:



A set of adapters would be needed, but it would fit; and the runners would remain unequal-length, so the staggered ramtubes would still be applicable.

How badly do you want it?

[Steve R]

Siz,
That Chevy manifold would not work very well even if you could adapt it to that P. S. E. base. I wonder where the rest of that setup is?

[Steve R]

Carnut427,
Thanks for that explaination. Why did the engineers opt for "paired" intake ports?
Steve

[Carnut427]

Steve R, I have no idea why they did it as they did, it must have looked good on paper. I believe the new BBs have equal-length, non siamesed intake ports. I know the Pro Stockers do, and have had for several years. Warren Johnson had a piece of sheetmetal made to cover his intake when he got his first set of non-siamesed heads. The sheetmetal cover was to hide the intake port difference from the competition.
Also, someone mentioned in an earlier post that BB Chevies have 5 bolts around each cylinder; they do, except for one cylinder on each bank, which would have to go through an intake runner in the head. They did on the all aluminum ZL-1, with a cap on top of the runner for access to the head bolt. Pro Stockers may have used the extra bolt also, I don't know. They'd get persnickety if you tried pulling one of their valve covers to check.