427 Side Oiler Ordered...

cobracobra · #1 (**permalink**) 03-02-2005, 05:25 PM

After about a year of research, probably like 99% of the members, I finally ordered my 427 Side Oiler and 31 spline"Nascar" 4 speed top loader. Im sortta doing this car ass backwards to some but what the hey.....Should pay it off by the end of this year and hopefully pop it in a Unique next year...Purchased everything through Southern...So far a great experience....thanks all Mike

SkipB · #2 (**permalink**) 03-02-2005, 07:03 PM

I don't want to start a ruckus, but what is so good about a 427 side oiler?

A couple of guys have told me that other than being authentic, it really is not that great an engine. I was told they were originially made for racing, but actually had oiling problems and then were discontinued. Is any of this true?

Excaliber · #3 (**permalink**) 03-02-2005, 07:34 PM

The legendary 427 side oiler was at the time perhaps the best engine of it's time!! That was the engine that powered the GT-40's to wins at LeMans. It was VERY competitive in NASCAR. The top and center oiler 427's have good oiling, but not AS GOOD as the side oiler. At SUSTAINED rpms in excess of 6000 rpm or so (and they often turned 7000) these engines would experience crankshaft oil starvation. But SUSTAINED high rpm is a problem for ANY engine, then and now! Hour after hour at 6000 rpm, how would a MODERN engine hold up to that you think? Like LeMans, for 24 hours!

No modern engine built today would go to LeMans without MAJOR re-working of the oiling system and many other components. It could NOT survive 6000 rpm for hours on end. Yet the 427 side oiler as delivered "back in the day" was ready for LeMans right out of the box!

To provide a more reliable bottom end the "side oiler" came out in 1965. The difference is that oil goes FIRST to the crank shaft journals and secondarily to the camshaft and upper end. I think it's mis-leading to say this is was an "oiling problem", it is an oiling enhancement due to the EXTREME race conditions.

I recently had my High Rise heads worked on at a local machine shop that SPECIALIZES in heads. The guy was blown away at the size of the intake ports, he called some racing friends to come over and check out the heads. THEY were impressed as well. These are 1964 heads on a 1968 side oiler block. Even TODAY this is a very impressive combination. Ports as large as these are very rare indeed, then and now, on ANY engine!

Side oilers were used in only a very FEW Ford cars, usually special order and built to race. The engines are scarce, then and now, there sole purpose in life was to win races, and they did that very well indeed!

But Ford cranked out THOUSANDS of "427's" many of which were used in industrial applications. Generators, air compressors, boats. These "standard issue" top or center oilers were quite common, heck they were everywhere! For the most part they were far from "race ready". Low compression and low rpm engines that would go and go and go, just not very fast! For this reason many people assume that the Ford 427 was an "also ran" at best. These engine had tremendous "potential" but typically came with small valves and mild camshafts and produced by the thousands in that configuration.

The "side oiler" is a different animal all together, not at all like the industrial versions. IT IS the "holy grail" of 427's, rare then and now! This basic engine later became the feared and quickly banned SOHC motor. SO powerful no other engine could begin to compete with it. Recently it was ONCE AGAIN banned from drag racing. Even TODAY that engine is STILL feared! It had more horse power than the also legendary Hemi of it's time.

Due to their thin wall, light wieght casting they were difficult at best to "get right" at the factory. Many became simply industrial blocks. Because of the unique methods used to cast and prep them they were VERY VERY expensive to produce. The 428 basically replaced them at a fraction of the cost. Thats why Shelby started using the 428 instead of the 427. They LOOKED the same, but were far from it internally.

..and the top loaders are about the strongest trans out there. Certainly WERE the strongest "back in the day". Not to mention the legendary 9" Ford rear end which first came out in 1959. THAT same 9" rear end design is what is used by 99% of the the NASCAR teams today, and a BUNCH of serious drag racers! What other design from 1959 could be found at NASCAR today? Ford rocks!

G.R. · #4 (**permalink**) 03-02-2005, 08:25 PM

Ernie best check your Ford history---the 427's S/O's(Nascar btw) usually grenaded themselves "Back in the Day"even in 200-500mi races(Nascar). That they managed to keep them together for 24hrs was indeed a feat of engineering.
BTW--From the factory all race teams tore them down and rebuilt them before they raced them, the teams didn't use them out of the box if they wanted to win.
Think I'm wrong, then why did the very first 427(a Nascar crate engine) put into and raced in a Cobra grenade after a very short time? The next engine the Shelby team rebuilt before it was ever installed.

They were not all that dependable, maybe on the street but not the race track. I'll grant the 7litre was in the Lemans GT-40 wins but I'll bet you dollars to donuts those were not "box stock".
Not trying to start anything

jdog · #5 (**permalink**) 03-02-2005, 08:59 PM

I can't touch this!

jdog

computerworks · #6 (**permalink**) 03-02-2005, 09:02 PM

...nice piece of prose, there, Ernie...

I would suggest that discussing the facts and legends of the FE take place on another thread, if necessary...

...and let Mike enjoy talking about his first major purchase towards building his car on this thread.

Thanks

Cashburn · #7 (**permalink**) 03-02-2005, 09:07 PM

Congratulations ... there's nothing like seeing a "real one" under the hood. If you need something to put it in, we can help you

Excaliber · #8 (**permalink**) 03-02-2005, 09:51 PM

Mike, I think your onto something big! Side oiler under the hood, indeed, it don't get any better than that!

Those engines back then are no different now in how they are prepped for racing. Run 500 miles and a total rebuild is typical. And of course they were taken apart and re-assembled before racing, just like any race motor is today, just to make SURE the specs are right.

I've never seen anything to suggest the winning LeMans engines were much different than a typical side oiler from the factory! BUT I would like to know for sure! What parts WERE different, if any? How did the build differ from "stock" (if at all)?

Grenades? I don't know, I hear that a lot. But more than one GT-40 went the distance and in more than one race! Like any motor if you run it hard it WILL break! But I think it has far more to do with being run hard or being assembled incorrectly. The basic 427 design is pretty rugged! To turn 7000 rpm with a big block back in 1965 was a pretty awesome motor, heck STILL is!

If you run ANY engine today at sustained 6000 rpm and an occasional 7000 rpm you can EXPECT it to "break" at some point! Does that make such an engine a "grenade"? Bum rap on the 427 I say!

Run a 1965 Chev big block to 7000 (with over the counter 1965 parts) and see what happens! Now THATS a grenade!

Ron,
Break this off to another thread if Mike doesn't want to discuss the side oilers here! I would like to continue the dialog and get to the bottom of it. No offense taken at all G.R., you bring up some valid points.

Carnut427 · #9 (**permalink**) 03-03-2005, 12:41 AM

The early 427s also had problems with the cylinder walls breaking (yeah, a lot of them do). They "squared off" the inside of the bore casting to help them live. The sideoiler is indeed a legendary engine.

cobracobra · #10 (**permalink**) 03-03-2005, 06:23 AM

Thanks for the replys and additional info on this subject, will keep everyone posted when I get it and post some pics...Mike

Steve R · #11 (**permalink**) 03-03-2005, 06:57 AM

Why a side oiler?
It is what the Cobra is famous for. It is big and nasty. It sounds great. It looks great. It make great power. It is an icon and is a collector's item. If you want a great engine that is practical, then by all means jam a Toyota V8 in there.

Steve R · #12 (**permalink**) 03-03-2005, 07:07 AM

Cobracobra,
Congrats. If you are like most of us and own a Cobra for fun, You are going to love it.
If you are going to try to win some nationally sanctioned race series to get your face on the cover of Rolling Stone, well then There are better choices.
Steve

jdog · #13 (**permalink**) 03-03-2005, 08:58 AM

Cobracobra,
Check my pictures to see a: 66'427fe side oiler!
Good Luck!

jdog

HIQ · #14 (**permalink**) 03-03-2005, 09:20 AM

Lots of engine discussions here at CC and I have never seen an owner of a 427 S/O wish they had something else.

Great start!

Excaliber · #15 (**permalink**) 03-03-2005, 09:53 AM

G.R. is right about the early NASCAR side oilers. Is there ANY race venue that is harder on engines than NASCAR? They have always had a hard time getting their motors to go 500 miles, STILL do! Those guys are just brutal on motors.

As a result the NASCAR boys ran a special crankshaft and connecting rods. The journals are wider and today it is extremely difficult to find replacement parts for the bottom end of these engines. I don't know of any Cobra Club member running a NASCAR crank in their 427 FE. Unless your running 7000 + rpm for 500 miles you don't need one!

Power Surge · #16 (**permalink**) 03-03-2005, 11:38 AM

For a 427 Cobra replica, you just can't beat it. It's the right engine for the car. I am doing an 428 based motor, because I can't afford to do the side oiler, but we all want one

.

The FE was a great motor in it's day, but it's day was a long time ago. That doesn't mean they don't perform. With all the new heads and blocks out, the FE has gotten it's second wind. But it still costs a ton more to build over a 385 series motor, and the 385 series has far superior head designs. I doubt many people who are building non-Cobras go the FE route.

SkipB · #17 (**permalink**) 03-03-2005, 02:07 PM

Thanks to all for bringing me up to date on the 427 side oiler. I learned alot!

Good luck with your very special engine, Cobracobra!

John Martin · #18 (**permalink**) 03-03-2005, 03:03 PM

Congradulations on your cobra , good choice of power !
(ps) I thought the problem lied with the sodium filled valves ( light weight for high rpm ) they use to get sucked in the heads , most run stainless today . The skirted design and cross bolted mains made the side oiler bullet prof . I run a nascar crank and rods ,as far as parts ; in todays world anything is avalible .

Excaliber · #19 (**permalink**) 03-03-2005, 05:45 PM

Yup, 667 horse, 1964 high rise heads and 1964 2X4 intake. I'm not sure those new "modern" Edelbrock heads or whatever have a BIG advantage over the stock high riser units. My heads are not "ported" or "polished", just good ol' 64 iron (sodium valves)! The pistons are identical to what they had back then, 12.5 to 1 compression (when you could actually buy 100 octane).

So how in the heck can it produce THAT much horse power? Gotta be the 427's were underated "back in the day" at 425 horse. That had to be for "insurance reasons"!

OR,,, could it be the modern roller lifter camshaft? Maybe thats all it is. Anyway the only part that "broke" on my engine WAS the freakin' modern roller lifter!

Engine's out now, rebuilding with lower compression pistons and a flat tappet cam. Smaller carbs with vacuum secondary. I got to "tame" this beast, at 667 horse I was barely able to drive it on the street!

Allan A · #20 (**permalink**) 03-03-2005, 06:53 PM

Ernie,

I thought it was a little slow, you should add a paxton while the motor is out.



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