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03-04-2005, 11:05 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Hillsboro,
OR
Cobra Make, Engine: ERA 541, Shelby 427, TKO600
Posts: 59
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Not Ranked
Interesting Discovery
I am in the process of tearing down my shelby 427FE to do a cam swap (see "Now thats a Cam" thread). It is going pretty much as I expected, just takes time but no real problems. I finished tearing it down tonight and got the cam out. When I pop'd the intake (shelby MR dual plane) I discovered that the intake gaskets (Fel-pro print-o seal 1247 for MR heads) had failed on three of the ports (#1, #5 and #8). See attached picture of #5 port. Each of them failed in the same way by tearing right at the edge of the port. Of the failures I know #1 was a vacuum leak as the intake port has oil residue on it compared to the others. The others might have been leaking too. This was more then likely part of my idle and low vacuum problem I was chassing with my cam. Oh well I guess it was good I was tearing it down and found this.
My question is why did these gaskets fail? The engine was assembled by Carrol Shelby Ent. in '99 and has about 6K miles on it. Also because it has medium riser heads, the only gaskets I found were the Fel-pro 1247s the same that were on there. I guess I will have to keep an eye on them in the future and expect to replace them regularly.
One nice discovery is that I found out my shelby heads are fully ported (I thought they were as cast). Also the shelby rocker assembly is pretty trick looking and very stout. Working on this engine is very interesting because I get to see the insides and find out exactly what is there... |
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03-04-2005, 11:11 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Hillsboro,
OR
Cobra Make, Engine: ERA 541, Shelby 427, TKO600
Posts: 59
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Not Ranked
Some other pictures
Naked engine!!!
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03-04-2005, 11:13 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Hillsboro,
OR
Cobra Make, Engine: ERA 541, Shelby 427, TKO600
Posts: 59
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Not Ranked
Shelby Rockers
Very nice, too bad they are under the valve covers...
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03-05-2005, 06:17 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 173
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Not Ranked
There are better intake gaskets , Victor Reinz " Nitroseal " Part # 95159SG
2.40 by 2.34
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03-05-2005, 06:22 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Southern California,
CA
Cobra Make, Engine: ERA 675 - 427 SO
Posts: 99
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Not Ranked
I would stay away from the Felpro intake gaskets on any FE, they have a reputation for failing. Go with the Victor Reinz "Nitroseal" part number 95159SG, availble through NAPA stores. - Tom
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03-05-2005, 02:23 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Dawsonville,
Ga
Cobra Make, Engine: Unique# 4279459
Posts: 142
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Not Ranked
I cant be sure but those look like the 1230 series "soft rubber-fiber base" ones without a steel core reinforcement so race builders can trim material for a custom port opening. The 1230 is only supposed to be used on a race engine that gets disassembled on a regular basis. It wasn't designed to withstand longterm daily street usage. Again, I could be wrong on what type your using but I don't see any metal showing in the gasket where it failed between ports.
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Unique # 4279459
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03-06-2005, 09:20 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Hillsboro,
OR
Cobra Make, Engine: ERA 541, Shelby 427, TKO600
Posts: 59
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Not Ranked
Nope these are 1247s, says right on it. But yes these do not have metal in them at all just fiber and the "printoseal". Either way not good for them to fail so soon.
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03-06-2005, 02:09 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Leamington,
Ont
Cobra Make, Engine: Classic Roadster with 427 center oiler
Posts: 443
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Not Ranked
1Trkpony
Your roller rockers are the same as the ones I got from FE Max except for the lettering. Gary at FE Max mentioned that he made them for Shelby until they had a falling out because Shelby wanted an exclusive right to sell them but Gary wanted to continue selling them minus the Shelby lettering. You're right about them being too beautiful to be covered by valve covers. I have been looking for lexan FE valve covers but no results so far.
Paul
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life is short: eat dessert first !
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03-06-2005, 02:11 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Leamington,
Ont
Cobra Make, Engine: Classic Roadster with 427 center oiler
Posts: 443
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Not Ranked
Here is a close up. These rockers are made from stainless steel.
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life is short: eat dessert first !
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03-06-2005, 03:15 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Washington DC Metro (Virginia),
VA
Cobra Make, Engine: Classic Roadsters, Tweaked 351W, T-5Z, CRII Tech Support Team.
Posts: 1,895
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Not Ranked
Something else to check. Lay a straightedge across the intake deck, and intake manifold. If it's warped, skin it until it's flat again and it will seal better. Also, a small bead of RTV around the water passages helps keep the seal.
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03-09-2005, 08:49 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Northern California,
CA
Cobra Make, Engine: -Sold- Contemporary 427S/C # CCX-3152 1966 427 Med Rise Side Oiler, 8v 3.54:1 Salisbury IRS, Koni's.. (Now I'm riding Harleys)
Posts: 2,567
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Not Ranked
I know I'm going to get hammered for this but the Shelby heads are not standard FE castings. They should have developed a better gasket (or at least found one that fit). Look at the water passage photo. Maybe they are using prison labor on their engine builds too. The best gasket maker is RTV USED VERY SPARINGLY (ok hammer away).
I always use a small amout of RTV on the head side and have never had a failure.
Those rocker arm assemblies are really cool... Why'd you take them off if you are just replacing the cam?
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michael
A man that is young in years, may be old in hours, if he have lost no time. But that happeneth rarely. Generally, youth is like the first cogitations, not so wise as the second. For there is a youth in thoughts, as well as in ages... Sir Francis Bacon (1561-1626)
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03-09-2005, 10:43 PM
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Senior Club Cobra Member
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Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Hastings, Nebraska USA,
Posts: 345
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Not Ranked
The Victor 95159SG Nitro Seal is a gasket that will last(as several posts mentioned)....the Felpro 1247 just won't last...you did well making it this long without a problem...the 95158SG is the Vidtor number for 1246 Felpro.....(updated 3/10/05 AM)
you get good advice on Club Cobra
George
Last edited by GEORGE ANDERSON; 03-10-2005 at 06:59 AM..
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03-10-2005, 05:07 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Leamington,
Ont
Cobra Make, Engine: Classic Roadster with 427 center oiler
Posts: 443
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Not Ranked
George
The number you gave is different than the number posted earlier (95158SG as opposed to 95159SG). Which is correct or are both correct?
Paul
__________________
life is short: eat dessert first !
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03-10-2005, 06:59 AM
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Senior Club Cobra Member
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Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Hastings, Nebraska USA,
Posts: 345
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Not Ranked
Thanks for the correction Paul...I corrected the above post
G
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03-10-2005, 10:45 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Hillsboro,
OR
Cobra Make, Engine: ERA 541, Shelby 427, TKO600
Posts: 59
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Not Ranked
Why take off the rockers to remove the cam? To take the intake and lifters out the rockers need to come out too. At least that is what I thought. On RTV, yep I do the same around the H2O ports, head side only.
Update and bad news on the progress: One of the stainless steel inserts for the rocker bolts would not take a 40 ft-lb torque (the one with the oil hole). Long story short that head is off to Shelby to be repaired, no charge (thanks Shelby!). Also swaping the bolts out for studs which they should have been in the first place I am learning. Good news is that the head came out with the engine in the car as luckily it was the passenger side. |
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