Upper half of rear main seal - Page 2

mj_duell · #21 (**permalink**) 07-17-2005, 03:18 PM

O.K. , current status. I have removed everything to get to the back of the engine. After removing the engine plate I cannot tell were the oil is coming from because everything on the back of the engine is coated with oil. The engine plate has an oil pattern that would suggest the top most oil galley plug is leaking, but this could be wrong. There is also a lot of paint missing from the bottom half of the cam plug.

I have two choices. 1. Put the fly wheel, starter and bellhousing back on and start the engine to see were the oil is coming from or 2. Replace every seal and then reassemble everything. By the way all the plugs are pressed in not screwed in. Can they be tapped? I would rather use a screw type plug.

--Mike

Power Surge · #22 (**permalink**) 07-17-2005, 04:38 PM

Mike, how about pulling the distributor, and cranking the oil pump over and see if that makes your leak evident?

mj_duell · #23 (**permalink**) 07-17-2005, 05:11 PM

Sure, that would work as well. I think that would be about as much work as putting the fly wheel and bellhousing back on. The leak is not immediate when you start the engine and increases in volume as the oil heats up so cold running of the pump may not make it leak.

--Mike

byron w · #24 (**permalink**) 07-17-2005, 05:19 PM

Mike, There was a thread on CC regarding the Lakewood install a couple of months ago and it had the best idea I have heard of.
In volved enlarging all of the holes in the Lakewood, have to anyway. Then, align the bell housing and weld the new washers on the back of the scattershield. I think you can find the thread in shop talk or the FE forum. I will see if I can find it.
Byron W.

mj_duell · #25 (**permalink**) 07-17-2005, 05:32 PM

Hi Byron,
I think I read that article. I also got this link from Roscoe here at CC:

http://www.cobragarage.com/lakewood_scattershield.htm

Seems to have some good insight into the process. I don't know if I will weld the washers on or just go with off-set dowels and hope I don't have to put the bell again. A machinist friend of mine is coming over to help with the install some time this coming week. I will do my best to keep you guys informed. You have been a great help already.

--Mike

Carnut427 · #26 (**permalink**) 07-17-2005, 11:57 PM

After pulling the original dowels, drill & tap a hole & install a 10-32 set screw from the side to hold the offset dowels in place. Then you can remove and replace the Lakewood without having to realign.

mj_duell · #27 (**permalink**) 07-18-2005, 04:32 AM

Carnut427!,
Another great idea! I hope this post stays around for a while. This type of problem seems to be fairly common. I am going to use the set screw idea, seems a lot easier than getting the washers welded in.

--Mike

Carnut427 · #28 (**permalink**) 07-19-2005, 01:03 AM

mj_duell, I can't take credit for the idea, just passing along info I read somewhere else and used.
Glad to help.

mj_duell · #29 (**permalink**) 07-20-2005, 05:16 PM

Update:
O.K. after putting the fly wheel, bellhousing and starter back on I was able to get the leak to show itself within a few seconds after starting the engine. Turned out to be the drivers side oil galley plug. After closer inspection I noticed that the plug was fitted after the engine was completed and dyno'ed. This would seem to indicate that it had failed on the dyno and was replaced. However, this is only speculation. I have decided that because this car will see track time every now and then that I am going to pull all of the oil galley plugs and then fit them with pipe plugs. The holes are standard 3/8 so a tap will be easy to find. Anyone done this before with success. Is this a bad idea? I have also now acquired my Lakewood bellhousing and found plenty of room available for the install. I will post the results of the "dial-in" as I go. I hope this work is all done by August 23-24 because I'll be runnin her at the Glen again. Some day I'll get the video from my last run uploaded in it's entirety.

--Mike

byron w · #30 (**permalink**) 07-20-2005, 05:40 PM

Mike,
Sounds like you are making progress. Good for you!!!!!!!!!!!!
Also, you can trim the bottom of the scattershield for ground clearence. I am sure you already knew that.
Later Gator
Byron

Carnut427 · #31 (**permalink**) 07-21-2005, 09:19 PM

Do one hole at a time. Thread the holes for 1/4" pipe plugs; after removing the plug that's in there, stuff a piece of rag or paper towel in to keep the chips from going anywhere. After tapping, use a magnet & low air pressure (not at the same time) to remove the chips. Remove whatever you used to plug the hole, then use a distributor shaft to create oil pressure, and let the oil flush out each hole. Be sure to stand directly behind the hole when flushing so that you don't get oil all over your garage.
Be aware that the lower hole has a connecting hole not very far in that delivers oil to the rear main. You'll have to be extra careful here to make sure you get all the chips out and they don't fall into the hole to the rear main.

Rick Parker · #32 (**permalink**) 07-21-2005, 11:59 PM

This is pretty ticklish attempting to do it on an assembled engine. One missed chip or shaving from threading and you run the chance of damaging a crank journal, or lifter bore. I'd be inclined to attempt to seal the leaking plug by replacing it only and modify for threaded plugs next time it's out of the car and apart.

Just my 2 cents.
Rick

FFR428 · #33 (**permalink**) 07-22-2005, 06:38 AM

You can put some grease or similar on the tap to help catch the chips as you go. Magnet also a good idea as suggested.

byron w · #34 (**permalink**) 07-22-2005, 06:53 AM

Mike,
I have to agree with Rick on this. Just to easy to miss some metal.
Just replace the one leaking and use some sealer of your choice.
Please resist my desire to always fix something that isn't broken!!
Byron

mj_duell · #35 (**permalink**) 07-22-2005, 07:22 AM

O.K. Guys,
I haven't decided to do all of them or just the leaker. I have four 1/4 18 brass / Allen head pipe plugs ready to go along with the taps and reamer. I agree that doing the others will add to the possiblility of chips, however. If I replace the leaker and not the others it may transfer enough pressure to one of the other soft plugs and I may have another failure. Remember this Cobra will see track time as much as 3 times a year. I think Carnut427 has the right approach and I believe this procedure should not be rushed.

Quote:

Please resist my desire to always fix something that isn't broken!!

Also a valid point. Decisions, Decisions.......
I will keep you updated.

By the way if you have never seen one, the Lakewood is a monster bellhousing. Looks like it could take a mortar round and keep together. I will feel a lot safer at 6400 rpm down the boot straight with this in place. It does, however, look to need a lot of reaming of the holes because of powder coating build-up. That does not include mods in order to get it dialed-in.

--Mike

byron w · #36 (**permalink**) 07-22-2005, 07:42 AM

Mike, I wasn't trying to tell you what to do even though I was !!
The Lakewood really is a stout piece and you are safer.
Please continue to keep us posted.
Byron

Carnut427 · #37 (**permalink**) 07-22-2005, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rick Parker

This is pretty ticklish attempting to do it on an assembled engine. One missed chip or shaving from threading and you run the chance of damaging a crank journal, or lifter bore. I'd be inclined to attempt to seal the leaking plug by replacing it only and modify for threaded plugs next time it's out of the car and apart.

Just my 2 cents.
Rick

I knew I'd get disagreement on this when I posted, and I fully agree that it's "pretty ticklish" to do it on an assembled engine; however, sometimes you've got to do one of these ticklish jobs. It's up to the car's owner to decide when an improvement such as this is needed now, not later. It's also helpful for everyone reading a thread such as this to see that there are differing opinions on such a fix; the "nays" point out that a fix such as this is indeed a delicate operation.

Mike, the oil pressure is equal throughout the block; installing a pipe plug in one hole isn't going to put any more pressure on the other press-in type plugs.

mj_duell · #38 (**permalink**) 07-22-2005, 06:04 PM

Well,
I guess I have decide to do the leaking hole first and see how the operation goes. If all is well and the chips aren't flying then I may do the other. I do know that I do not want to pull the tranny, bellhousing, clutch and fly wheel every time I undo a soft plug. My guess is that later blocks had screw in plugs for a reason. We will see how it goes. Problems with chips may not be that bad. I have a veteran machinist helping me do the work so I will let him decide. He had told me pretty much what Carnut427 had said about doing the job.

Quote:

Do one hole at a time. Thread the holes for 1/4" pipe plugs; after removing the plug that's in there, stuff a piece of rag or paper towel in to keep the chips from going anywhere. After tapping, use a magnet & low air pressure (not at the same time) to remove the chips. Remove whatever you used to plug the hole, then use a distributor shaft to create oil pressure, and let the oil flush out each hole.

If I do screw the pooch and get chips in the engine then I will just have to except the fact. Anyway, I'm more concerned with dialing in the bellhousing. I want to take a moment and say again, how much I love being a member of this site. The input and help form members here is amazing. I hope I can help one of you some time.

--Mike

FFR428 · #39 (**permalink**) 07-22-2005, 06:18 PM

Mike what crank do you have in there? The reason I ask I've never seen a "half moon" cut out on a 428 crank flange only the square. Only early 390's, 352's and some later truck cranks had the half moon that I know of. Just wondering? G.

mj_duell · #40 (**permalink**) 07-22-2005, 07:15 PM

Should be a new SCAT 428 crank. That is what they have on the build sheet along with a 4.13 bore and 3.98 stroke. I have a 66 block C6ME and the "A" an the back so I took thier word for it at the time. I have not looked at the crank for identification numbers only the block, but I did see a picture of a new SCAT 428 crank with the half-moon at mustangsandfords.com after you asked.

http://mustangandfords.com/techartic...nd_sb2_k_z.jpg

Anyway, after many thrashings and a good amount of track time, the engine performs as billed.

--Mike



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