Beehive Valve Springs

[Bernica]

Guys,

I'm in the process of purchasing a sweet 427so with all the goodies. Heads are Carrol's signature series, ported/polished with 2.26 / 1/75 valves and Dove shaft assemblies and end support stands. The motor dyno'd at well over 520hp @ 6200 on the first run, running a custom Crower cam at (advertised) 283*dur x .620 int / 287* x .634 exh and 112* separation, with a pair of Holley 715's.

The one component I am not familiar with is the "Beehive" valve springs. Can someone tell me what I have here? Also, the motor ran on a dyno last year, Jan '04. The current owner never backed off the rockers when he put the motor in storage. Should I be concerned?


Thanks, as always, for any input.....

[RICK LAKE]

Bernia You have too much lift for those springs. I talked to comp cams tech 2 weeks ago, the max lift is .600" Coil bind is at 630" with the valve spring hieght sent at 1.90"s I am going with a 587,607 lift cam and have been told this is tight. the spring need .060" not to break or override the coils. Call comp cams and talk to tech line, they will tell you the same. Rick Lake

[Bernica]

Thanks Rick,

I wil check into it. The motor was built by the late Jim Demmitt, who was a known FE guy on the west coast since the '60's. I will definitely check further. Do you know anything about these "Beehive" springs? Or where I can find out more about them?

-Michael

[Michael C Henry]

Back in the day(69) I had a Ford cam C8AX-6250-D .600" lift and 330° duration) .I had double springs with dampers .The iron heads were machined for Prefect-Circle valve seals and the spring seats to keep the spring bases located. I had shell lifters and Crane tubular push rods. I had to replace bent push rods on a regular basis. All this was in a 406 +.040". I don't have the behive springs but as I understand it their advantage is primarilally smaller (thus lighter)valve spring keepers.Coil bind is a potential problem. I'd look into it now.

[Bernica]

Michael,

Thanks for the advice. I am checking all angles.

Say hello to the Great Pacific Northwest. I come from Issaquah "back in the day" when it was a little one-stop town.
I terrorized the local region with my two black '61 Starliners...one with a 406 PI (Grand National tripower, etc.) and the other with a 427so/mr. Both identical cars....just kept everyone guessing on what I was showing up with on Saturday night.

Ahh, the good 'ol days, eh?

-Michael

[Keithc8]

You would have to know the valve spring assemble heights and the actual spring pressures as well as the spring part number. There are BeeHive springs that Comp has that the Tech line does not even know about. I would not talk to these guys anyway about any of this because there is to much that they do not know. Talk to an engine builder, the guy that built it would be a good place to start.
I have used some BeeHive valve springs that the Cup guys were using that the Tech guys probably do not even know about that set up at like 1.950 or 2.000. I would have to go back and look but did not coil bind till .750 lift. They gave me about 150 seat and 400 open. I was running on an hydraulic roller to see if I could get more rpms out of it and it help about 300rpms because of the spring being lighter as well as the titanium small retainer is lighter. Install titanium valves and you can get another 600 to 700 rpms.
I guess my point is watch who you talk to at any of these tach guys at any of the cam companys. They told one of my customers that he had way to much spring pressure because all my customer told them was the part number on his spring. They have an advertised assembled height of 1.950 listed for this spring but they did not know that I had it set up at 2.050 which made the pressure a lot less. The bottem line is get your assembled heights and go get your springs checked for pressure and coil bind. Good luck, Keith Craft

[RICK LAKE]

bernia Mike there are nascar springs and they are made different than the over the counter ones they sell. Tech knows about them. Every gram of wieght you can take off the valve assembly will give you 2-300 rpm. the limit was 68-6900 rpm. The valve gets bouncy and will not seat, power lose. Same of this depends on cam profile and ramps. Titanium valves you can't runon the street. Talked to the 4 major valve companys, heat cycles is why they break. Yeah I found one guy that has 12K on them and no problem. The seats have to be of a harder material than what comes in the heads. For drag racing, this is the way guys are going for street, not recomended. I asked about coating for the valves and heads, on the valves they will last a little longer but you loose air flow(cfm) If keith is using a longer valve and going 2.090 height you would have less seat pressure on the valve but more lift could be used on the cam but you still need .060" for coil bind. Comp said they have had a couple of broken valve springs, but this is due to improper installation or binding of the spring and a over coil ride happens. If Keith is running higher heights on the valves than you need different lenght push rods to keep the rocker centered on the valve top. Some of these techs also recommend valve caps for the tops of the valves. Rick Lake

[Keithc8]

I do not know what BeeHive spring these guys were telling you about but if it is the Nascar spring it would take .700 lift no problem. These guys also run 230 on the seat and about 600lbs open so setting it up higher would give the spring pressure most people want to run on a flat-tappet or hydraulic roller. The Edelbrock heads will have about 2.000 assemble height with a .060 spring cup with a standard FE length valve. This is with our valve job and 2.19/2.25 and 1.75 valve. I normally just use a regular dual spring unless I am loooking for extra rpms on a hydraulic camshaft. Thanks, Keith Craft

[Bernica]

Keith Craft is correct.

I finally confirmed that these are the "skunkworks" NASCAR beehive springs that the guys at the shop don't know about. Should be good to .700+.

Thanks to all of you, I am feeling much better now.

That's why I hang out here. You guys are great.

No one has all the answers, and I'm sure we've all met enough jerks that think they do.

-Michael Bernica

[RICK LAKE]

bernica Mike the springs you are talking about are part# 26595 seat load is 150lbs and open is 370lbs on a 2.00" valve. coil bind is at 1.150". This is the only set they list for a cam with over .600" lift. The others are for LS1 motors. Keith knows more about the seat pressures for certain cams than I do. ( but learning fast). The big point from comp is getting as much oil to help keep the springs cool as possible. If you are running dry sump system, spray bars in the valve covers is what they want. Wet sump, they want as much oil and flow to the heads as possible to help remove the heat from the springs. They want you to try and have the return oil not hit the crank as is cost HP. The important note is that you have a single spring holding the valve, if it breaks or the valve breaks there is NO safety net. There is another article about different diameter pushrods the there strenghts. I thought that thick wall pushrods where the way to go but this is not 100% true. I will save this for another thread. Good luck Mike Rick Lake