428 Industrial Build up

[cyclone427428]

I have a 1969 428 Industrial Irrigation motor. I would like to put it into my 67 Fastback mustang. I currently have a set of D2TEAA heads on it with a 2 barrel intake(not much of a performer). I've been starting to get parts for it time to time. I have so far a 800 cfm Holley Double Pumper, Port O Sonic Offenhauser Intake, Lunati drag cam 295 Adv. duration In./Ex. with .560" lift and a 2500-6500 powerband, with new lifters. Alot of people have told me to get a set of Edlebrock heads, but I was looking at Dove's cast iron 428 "Canadian' CJ heads. I want to get a set of 2" primary tube headers with 3 1/2" collectors. I'm shooting for 550-600+HP. Anyone have any thoughts or suggestions? Open for ideas. Thank you.

[Carnut427]

You're on the right track, except for the heads. Ported Edelbrock heads will give you better performance. There are several variations, giving different flow rates to match the performance you want. The best way to find out which are best for you would probably be to find out how much different heads flowed and running them on a desktop dyno program. Do a Google on "ported edelbrock fe heads" to find what's available, and don't forget Keith Craft's masterpieces.

Dan

[cyclone427428]

I was wanting to stick with cast iron heads. I heard aluminum heads dont really work well on the street. I guess the real thing is cast iron vs. aluminum. Which performs better? Weight ratio doesn't matter, just performance. I was mainly looking at Blue Thunder and Dove. I've also thought about notching the block to run 427 Medium riser heads or Tunnel port heads. I think i'd much rather stay away from notching the block. Anyone have any ideas or thoughts?

[rblong]

Cyclone - look under post just posted "FE Hydraulic roller". Mine was a 428 and worked out very well. I second the needfor good flowing heads!

Bruce

[Carnut427]

Originally Posted by cyclone427428

...I heard aluminum heads dont really work well on the street...

There's not the least bit of truth to that. My Ford 5.4 has a cast iron block and aluminum heads as do many other factory engines. If it works for the factory...

Also, because of the increased heat dissipation with aluminum heads, you can run an extra half point of compression, ie 10.5:1 instead of 10:1.

It's your engine, do what you want, but good heads and a cam to match will really wake up an engine!

[SCOBRAC]

Nothing wrong with a an industrial engine provided all the cylinders line up, some didn't.

I'm not sure why your aluminum heads aren't working well for you enless the chamber size has changed, that said the principal advantage in aluminum anything is weight reduction. You cut almost 100 pounds off the weight of the engine using aluminum. Of course they are easier to port and tend to be less likely to have hot spots, which in a small way allows for increased compression. Hot Rod Magazine did an interesting article recently comparing aluminum to cast iron. The results were interesting, they concluded that comparing apples to apples and all things being the same weight was the only advantage to aluminum. That said good 428 heads and 427 lowrise heads are getting hard to find, so aluminum might make sense financially as well.

How much of a notch do you need for a 427 MR (2.19" intake valve) to fit? The 427's notched the cylinder. Assuming something around 4.13" bore V. the 4.23" 427 bore that's a lot of notching. It depends on what kind of lift you want, but I think for a street motor the point of diminishing return might be at 2.09" valves. That said I run tunnel port valves in my 427 and really enjoy the flexability it provides. I'm not sure I'm aware of anyone doing it with a 428. It wouldn't be cheap. I have about $3,000 in additional head / intake work to make the Tunnel Port configuration make sense. Valve size is only 1/2 the equation. The theory obviously is to stuff as much mixture into a cylinder and light the fuse. Potential intake volume / flow is wonderful, but only useful when the potential is maximized. This is only into the case of a 2.19" and 2.25" intake valve when compression matches the increased capacity. You really want to run that kind of compression?

The difference between a standard 428 CJ head and a 427 Medium Rise head configuration in terms of flow potential is about 50 cubic feet of air a minute. The potential horsepower increase is about 100 assuming a .600" lift. Of course this assumes you want and are willing to live with a 500+ HP FE in your car. You may simply not want or need that much excitement in your life, nor the increased costs associated with it.

The maximum power potential of any engine is limited, ultimately, by how much power-producing air/fuel mixture can be processed by the four cycles of the engine: Intake, Compression, Power, and Exhaust. Perhaps the single most critical piece of data in this very complex calculation is the amount of air/fuel mixture that can be passed through the intake port.

Increasing an engine’s displacement will enable it to produce a given level of power at a lower RPM, but ultimately, it is the flow capacity of the intake tract that will limit peak power, regardless of the swept volume of the cylinders.

I think you have a solid plan. Best of luck.

[cyclone427428]

I have a Lunati drag racing cam. 295 Adv. duration In./Ex. with .560 lift in./Ex. with a 2500-6500 power band with a 7100 valve float. I guess the main question I have is who makes the all around best FE head? Quality, flow, performance?

[rblong]

I am not sure you can buy any off the shelf that will give you great flow. When I was looking at doing mine any aluminum heads I could find needed to be worked over by someone. Maybe I am wrong, but since I do not have a lot of porting experience I got mine from Keith Craft in stage II version.

[Carnut427]

Flatlander Racing

Keith Craft
Edelbrock FE Cylinder heads
Stage II - 330 cfm/250 cfm $2295
Stage III - 375 cfm/280 cfm $2995

Avenger Cylinder Heads

The heads shown for Keith Craft & Avenger are both 427-size valves...as SCOBRAC mentioned, you don't want these on your 428. I listed them both so you can contact them and get info on 2.09" intake ported heads. Flatlander's chart lists max flow at .700 lift, which isn't all that helpful if you're valve is opening .560". As a matter of fact, full lift isn't the best way to compare how a head will perform on your engine; it's more of an advertising gimmic. I'm sure you can get more info from Flatlander and others such as flow at various valve lifts. Another option, as mentioned by rblong, is to buy the heads then have them ported by someone locally. However, you usually aren't going to get heads that flow as well as those from Keith or another large operation that first finds out what makes a certain head flow well, then is able to machine those profiles onto the heads they sell with CNC equipment. Don't forget to check out ported Blue Thunder heads as well...Keith has done some work on these, although I'm not sure if he's producing them yet.
After saying all that, your best bet is to call Keith Craft, Flatlander, Avenger and others mentioned to get the info that applies to your build.
Good Luck,

Dan