Aluminum 427 sideoiler & 5spd build advice

[rmarino]

Hello Club Cobra, I am a new member and this is my first Post. I am anxiously awaiting my Shelby CSX 4828 and have been told that It has been completed and awaits shipment to Vegas for final Inspection. I would like some recomendations/comments on the engine buildup.
I want to go with a Shelby aluminum FE block and heads and need some advice determining which displacement will be the best for my use. I have been told that the 427 cubic inch displacement is awesome for high revving applications and that stroker motors are not as exhillarating. Others say that the best way to go is is the biggest stroke you can go with.
The rear gear ratio is 3.73 and I am considering the tremec 5spd. This car will mostly be a street car in the New England area and may possibly see a novice race. I would like to be in the 600 horse range without driveability issues. I am thinking of using a Scat Billet crank and rotating assembly with a good quality solid roller cam.
I would appreciate any feedback anyone has on the engine build, to stroke or not to stroke and trans choice! My email is rmarino@professionalautomotive.com in case any one wants to email me directly. Otherwise I'll ck back in to club cobra. - Thanks Rick Marino

[xlr8or]

Talk with George Anderson at Gessford Machine. He is not only a great engine builder but also a Shelby Dealer.

[Poolw]

I would advise you to look at the gear ratios and pick one that will work best for you. Tramec has dealers all over the country. Here is a tremec dealer with a great web site - www.ddperformance.com. You may want to consider the T56 6 speed with close ratio gears, it the same as the Z06 znd Viper.
Good Luck, Poolw

[JWheaton]

What is the attraction and need for a 600 HP engine that will primarily be used for the street and occasional novice race?

450 HP is more than enough to get these cars going faster than 99% of all other cars on the road.

[maverick]

Originally Posted by JWheaton

What is the attraction and need for a 600 HP engine that will primarily be used for the street and occasional novice race?

450 HP is more than enough to get these cars going faster than 99% of all other cars on the road.

Ever watch "Home Improvements"?

[ENTDOC]

I would stick with 427 CI. The whole idea behind the original motor was to rev high and quick and I think a stroker defeats that somewhat. I have stroker 427SO by the way,I wish it was standard stroke. I would also go with a hydraulic roller cam ( mild lope)and shoot for 450 hp range,you will be happier in the long run and have a more reliable engine. Again,these are all things that my motor is not and that I would change if I could. chuck

[Anthony]

I would stroke it. Anytime you increase an engine's displacement, it will "tame" the cam some. Also, the engine will have a bigger average torque/HP curve, and since so, will accelerate faster, assuming you can get traction.

Stroke it if your wallet can support it.

Pick the tranny that you want, then get the rear diff ratio that will allow most driveability. If you want a tremec, get the TKO600 with the 0.82 5th, and get something like 3.08's to 3.23's in the rear.

[Excaliber]

3:73 rear gear ratio? Whew, THATS going to be major JOKE! Especially with a 5 speed where the trans 1st gear ratio will all ready be pretty low. You planning on pulling stumps or 18 wheelers with that gear ratio? Cause you certainly could!

Listen to Anthony. 3:08 or so is the way to go. 3:73 will be downright dangerous due to excessive wheel spin. You WILL spin out and loose control when you least expect it with such a low ratio.

[Carnut427]

Remember, you can bore it further than stock also. If you have it bored oversize, I suggest you don't take it out to the max; leave some meat in so the engine can be bored again in the future for a rebuild. Yes, the Shelby blocks have removeable sleeves, but you can leave that for another time also. As for those who are satisfied with 450 hp, some people are and some want more. I'm in the "more is better" camp. Mine isn't a daily driver, and when I take it out I really like the wild motor, whether I can always use it or not. It's just neat knowing it's there.
Build it to what you want, not what anyone else says you should be happy with, whether that's 450 or 650 hp.
My 2 cents,

Dan

[427SnakeSC]

Can you still get rings and pistons for the original 427 bore?

[blykins]

Yes. Several manufacturers make pistons and rings for a standard 4.23" bore.

I say go for as much horsepower as you can afford.

That's why these cars have a gas pedal. Sure it may have 600 hp, but you don't have to use it all.

These cars are toys....and all about bragging rights anyway.

[Jerry Clayton]

I have had a short wheelbase car with over 1000hp--you could read both sides of the car from anywhere hehind it under acceleration--when it had traction (15x15x33 slicks) if you let up to straighten it out and then jumped back into it , the front wheels would come up so it had better be pointed in the direction you wanted to go.

The biggest problem with a high horsepower engine is not at idle or wide open throttle , but intermediate throttle operation-------you have to drive like your milking a mouse while your holding the unpinned lever of a hand grenade down with one foot and the other foot is on the MIDSECTION of a rattlesnake--

350-450 horsepower is plenty for the street, but make it LOUD so you can drown out the ricer boomboxes

Jerry

[427SnakeSC]

"you have to drive like your milking a mouse while your holding the unpinned lever of a hand grenade down with one foot and the other foot is on the MIDSECTION of a rattlesnake--"
That's good, I like that!

[maverick]

Originally Posted by ENTDOC

I would stick with 427 CI. The whole idea behind the original motor was to rev high and quick and I think a stroker defeats that somewhat. I have stroker 427SO by the way,I wish it was standard stroke. I would also go with a hydraulic roller cam ( mild lope)and shoot for 450 hp range,you will be happier in the long run and have a more reliable engine. Again,these are all things that my motor is not and that I would change if I could. chuck

Chuck,
Your point is well taken in reference to a rebuilt, but with a blank sheet build why not take the free tq and hp available from a stroker crank, same cost?
Also agree with the hydraulic roller cam, no question the way to go.
Performance output of 600+hp @ 10.5:1 comp./ , single 850 cfm carb., idle at 850rpm, and minimal maintainence makes for a very tractable engine. Engine will make the power at or below 6200 rpm so reliablity is also a non-issue.

[Excaliber]

I should let this go, I guess...

But it bothers me that replica manufacturers would suggest or encourage such a low combination of trans\rear gear ratio with these high horse power cars. Seems to me it borders on being irresponsible and shows a complete disregard for reasonable safety standards. I'm not saying these cars are 'safe', but at some point common sense has to prevail to some degree.

I can almost hear the rebuttal: Well the competition Cobras ran a 3:73 rear gear. OK, they also ran SLICKS and a CLOSE RATIO top loader. Making the overall rear gear\trans ratio in 1st gear MUCH higher and MUCH more logical, reasonable and safer than STREET tires and the ultra low 1st gear ratio you would find in a five or six speed. This is just insane, a recipe for disaster, especially for a first time Cobra owner who is HARDLY a 'race driver'!!!

[maverick]

Originally Posted by Jerry Clayton

I have had a short wheelbase car with over 1000hp--you could read both sides of the car from anywhere hehind it under acceleration--when it had traction (15x15x33 slicks) if you let up to straighten it out and then jumped back into it , the front wheels would come up so it had better be pointed in the direction you wanted to go.

The biggest problem with a high horsepower engine is not at idle or wide open throttle , but intermediate throttle operation-------you have to drive like your milking a mouse while your holding the unpinned lever of a hand grenade down with one foot and the other foot is on the MIDSECTION of a rattlesnake--

350-450 horsepower is plenty for the street, but make it LOUD so you can drown out the ricer boomboxes

Jerry

Sheesh, that's one scary ride!

[Jerry Clayton]

We just got a new scanner-- I'll try to post a photo

Jerry