Solid Lifters and Bronze Gear...a Nightmare?

Bluedog · #1 (**permalink**) 08-13-2006, 11:51 PM

I'm looking at a Cobra with solid lifters but am very hesitant do to the constant adjustment required (maintenance) over hydraulic lifters and the necessity to have a bronze distributor gear. I've read over the years on CC the nightmare people have experienced with this setup. Since I'm not "Mr. Good Wrench" and would rather be driving instead of tinkering, should I heed my gut instincts and run from this type of setup? Is there any upside to solid lifters for street use? Would it be expensive to switch this setup out to hydraulic lifters?
Thx,
Bluedog

Excaliber · #2 (**permalink**) 08-14-2006, 12:22 AM

Solid ROLLER lifter cam and bronze gear. Flat tappet cam just takes a regular gear.

Valve adjustment aint that big a deal. Set em and they seldom get out of adjustment. I would check under the valve covers from time to time even if I had hydraulic lifters. It's just a good way to stay in touch with your motor and spot potential trouble before it comes around.

Bluedog · #3 (**permalink**) 08-14-2006, 09:11 AM

Ernie, so it comes down to the type of cam used with solid lifters and bronze gear combo? As you mentioned a flat tappet cam can accept a steel gear with solid lifters. Is there any other type of cam that works with solid lifters and a steel gear? It seems that a bronze gear on any steel cam will wear the bronze gear down quickly. Not sure why a flat tappet cam would be an exception since all cams are made of steel. Thanks for the education!

Excaliber · #4 (**permalink**) 08-14-2006, 09:53 AM

I'm not a metalurgist but apparently all steel is not equal. Roller cam is a different material than a flat tappet cam. Seems to me there are steel gears, iron gears, composite material gears and bronze gears. No matter what cam you use you still have to pick the right dist gear material for the application.

Changing the gear on the dist can be, well, as your thread title states, a nightmare!

fostereast · #5 (**permalink**) 08-15-2006, 09:03 AM

I'm told with a good rocker arm setup where no studs are "pressed" in, a lot of the historic challenges and frequency of adjustment goes away. Anyone with real world experince on this matter, please comment.

lovehamr · #6 (**permalink**) 08-15-2006, 12:58 PM

Guys,
This is no big deal. A cam built for solid lifters is made of the same metal (basically iron) as one for a hydraulic lifter cam, so a factory type distributor gear is in order. The only time that this doesn't hold true is when you're using a camshaft that was meant for a serious solid roller set up which would be made of a much stronger steel. That is the rub when using a factory type dist. gear, not the actual lifter type.

The valve adjustments are no big deal either. I’ve owned Boss 302s (all solid lifters) for about 20 years and love the sound that a well adjusted set of solids makes. If I remember correctly didn’t all small block, and most big block, Cobras have solids anyway? In summary, I would think that the solid lifters would be a positive for me, not a negative.

Steve

Bluedog · #7 (**permalink**) 08-15-2006, 01:09 PM

Steve,
Interesting, I'm curious how so many people over the years wound up with a bronze gear on "any cam" running solid lifters experiencing disasterous results. Logic dictates a bronze gear must only work with a certain combination of cam and solid lifters. Otherwise, nobody in their right mind would ever use such a soft metal and always use steel on a steel cam. Something is missing here...
Bluedog

olddog · #8 (**permalink**) 08-19-2006, 07:47 PM

I am no expert on this, but I have read on other forums where distributor gears were worn to the point the distributor quit turning is less than 500 mile. People were claiming he didn't break the engine in right, which was crap. A couple more gears and the whole engine was trashed from the metal. This case turned out to be the wrong gear for the cam. I have read of several others, and I have never heard a good technical explanation either.

From industrial experiance, not all steel is the same. Their are tool steels that are so hard you cannot scratch them with a knife, but if you drop them they shatter like glass. You can surface harden steel by many methods. I do know that two like metals rubbing together will cause them to gaul (SP?). I can also tell you that there are gear boxes with bronze gears running against steel that hold up under 24/7/365 for years and years.

I would not go against what the cam manufacture states, but if I was concerned I would want to talk to people who are running that exact setup.

Excaliber · #9 (**permalink**) 08-19-2006, 07:55 PM

When I changed out my roller cam for a flat tappet I did not immediatly change the bronze gear which the roller had. When I did get around to it I was astonished to see how quickly the new flat tappet cam had damaged the bronze gear. Which was in perfect condition for thousands of mile with the roller cam.

olddog · #10 (**permalink**) 08-20-2006, 07:30 PM

Seen this link for a technical explanation in a thread under "shop talk".

http://www.performancedistributors.com/technical.htm

Scufty · #11 (**permalink**) 08-20-2006, 08:56 PM

Ok I went from a hyd set up to a solid cam and didnt change the gear (steal) (msd distributor)....the steal gear was eatin up in like 100 miles tops..chewed it till it broke. I changed it out to a brass gear. Was told that the brass gear would be a much better choice ( coming from a guy who builds top fuel cars and has been building engines for 35 years ) He states that a brass gear will wear to the gear on the cam and that it is much better to have 2 disimiliar metals. I have no idea what kind of gear to run after all the different talk..I will be taking a look at mine very soon and will report the findings. I love hearing other experiences

Scufty · #12 (**permalink**) 08-20-2006, 09:00 PM

If you read the last line I guess Im on the right track

(1) Drill a .030" hole in the lifter/oil galley plug behind the distributor. This will allow additional lubrication on the distributor and cam gears. This will not lower oil pressure enough to hurt the engine.

(2) Ford oil pump mounting brackets have elongated holes. Due to this, the distributor shaft and oil pump shaft should be aligned so that the distributor turns freely before tightening the mounting bracket bolts. Failure to do this will cause a binding situation, thus damaging the gear.

(3) Stock Ford hex oil pump drive shafts are know to vary in length which could cause a bottoming or binding situation.

(4) Brass distributor gears can be used to avoid damaging the cam gear. Brass gears are softer and can wear out quicker than the cast gear, but will not cause damage to the cam gear. If using a brass gear, check it occasionally for wear.

SantaFe66 · #13 (**permalink**) 08-20-2006, 10:40 PM

Ran into this while trying to find out how much a distributor that I have cost new.

Go to this link for info on Ford FE distributor gear wear and what causes it:

http://www.performancedistributors.com/technical.htm

Here's what it says:

Topic 2: Excessive Distributor Gear Wear on Ford

Excessive distributor gear wear can be a problem with Ford engines. Most of the time, the problem is a result from the use of a high volume oil pump. High volume oil pumps put a lot of stress on the distributor and cam gears. A high volume oil pump is not necessary on a street driven engine that turns no more than 7000 rpms. Only extreme racing engines require the high volume pump. Should you use this type of oil pump, the following precautions will save your distributor gear from early destruction.

(1) Drill a .030" hole in the lifter/oil galley plug behind the distributor. This will allow additional lubrication on the distributor and cam gears. This will not lower oil pressure enough to hurt the engine.

(2) Ford oil pump mounting brackets have elongated holes. Due to this, the distributor shaft and oil pump shaft should be aligned so that the distributor turns freely before tightening the mounting bracket bolts. Failure to do this will cause a binding situation, thus damaging the gear.

(3) Stock Ford hex oil pump drive shafts are know to vary in length which could cause a bottoming or binding situation.

(4) Brass distributor gears can be used to avoid damaging the cam gear. Brass gears are softer and can wear out quicker than the cast gear, but will not cause damage to the cam gear. If using a brass gear, check it occasionally for wear.

Paul

Scufty · #14 (**permalink**) 08-21-2006, 09:20 PM

kinda thought I had that article covered

LOL

SantaFe66 · #15 (**permalink**) 08-21-2006, 10:02 PM

The first paragraph about what causes the failures was notable. Thought that might be helpful.

Looks like we saw the same info.

Excaliber · #16 (**permalink**) 08-21-2006, 10:07 PM

#2 and #3 weren't bad either! Thanks guys for that interesting up-date on an often discussed problem. I don't about #4, I'd rather 'get it right' and not have to use a brass gear.

Scufty · #17 (**permalink**) 08-22-2006, 11:52 AM

Ya I think I may go through the entire deal this winter but for now its the brass gear and has been fine for about 200 miles with maybe 250 left to go in the summer..then its pull the motor again.



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