Ernies Engine Blog #2 (Side Oiler).

[Excaliber]

Coming soon to a screen near you, yet another engine blog!

Making preparations to overhaul a 427 side oiler, steel crank, single carb, flat tappet cam, E-Brock alloy heads\intake, Dove roller rockers, etc.

OPEN to suggestions on final specs; cam, compression ratio, heads, intake, carb (MUST be chrome or polished), march pulley set? Out with the original steel crank and go 'stroker'? Dove roller rockers? Gotta have a road race pan! What WOULD be the perfect specs (pump gas). Original side oiler block, will NOT accept hydraulic lifters! Motor currently runs strong, time for 'dress up' and 'over haul'.

Shooting for 450-500 horse with LOTS of chrome, polish and dress up stuff. Gessford for parts (of course) and Georges priceless expertise.

Currently a 4 speed top loader wide ratio with Ford 9" 3.5 rear gear. I'm thinking, CLOSE ratio (due to the low rear gear) and an OVERDRIVE unit to bolt in front of the exisiting Ford 9". Looks WAY complicated to go with a 5 speed OD trans. Options? Older Hi Tech looks GREAT!

Planning is half the fun...

[undy]

No replacement for displacement... stroke the sucker!

[Ken Oikawa]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Coming soon to a screen near you, yet another engine blog!

Currently a 4 speed top loader wide ratio with Ford 9" 3.5 rear gear. I'm thinking, CLOSE ratio (due to the low rear gear) and an OVERDRIVE unit to bolt in front of the exisiting Ford 9".

What type of overdrive unit are you planning to install...Gear Vendor?

[kris-kincaid]

Ernie, did you buy that Hi-Tech? Any photos?

[Excaliber]

Working with a friend of mine on his car. The Hi Tech has been on Island for many years and I have met\known the last three owners over the years. Due to the short drive shaft and pinion angle of the 9" rear it appears the only logical OD possibility will be a 5 speed.

Trans mount is the biggest hurdle to overcome.

[Toby]

Iron Balls Ernie,

My suggestion would be do all the things you warned against in the KEITB thread! This way you will win back all the friends you alienated at CC, AND.... the pain will slowly subside in the groin area! A win/win situation if I ever saw one!

Toby

[Carnut427]

Has the engine been bored before? Remember, those blocks can't be taken out very far...are you prepared to sleeve it back to stock if necessary? Are standard rings even available? This has to be addressed first.
Pick your heads, cam and compression to build the horsepower you want.

Dan

[Excaliber]

Hey Toby, I'm not gonna build it 'my way', I'm gonna build it his way! Out with those 15" wheels and in with the 17"! Scrap that turkey pan so he can show off the chrome and polished goodies on the motor! Maybe a 5 speed after all (herasy I tell ya).

OK, I'm gonna draw the line at neon lights and a big wing in the back. After all, we all draw the line somewhere.

Hard to say WHAT shape the internals of the motor are in, runs strong currently. Sleeving, if needed, is likely, being it is an original side oiler block I will make every effort to save it.

[Carnut427]

Which Edelbrock heads, valve sizes and have they been ported?

[Excaliber]

Good question Carnut427. I'm in the exploratory stage and considering options. I'm thinking whatever heads\intake it is it will be properly machined as matching components. Push rod holes in the heads relieved, distributor hole aligned, head bolt seat areas on the heads relieved for a proper fit. Ports may or may not need much, that depends on final cam\intake selection. NOT building a 'monster horse power' motor, just something with a nice lumpy idle, so BIG heads might not be a requirement. A good street performance motor that runs on pump gas.

One thing for sure, as many parts as possible will come from Gessford Machine!

[blykins]

Yeah, because you wanna pay all you can!

[Carnut427]

I'll leave the specifics of head modifications to you; I just want to know which heads, valve sizes and if they've been ported already so I can tell you how much power they'll make.

Dan

[Excaliber]

Why I'm working with Gessford is to guarentee I'll not only get the right parts, correctly modified if required, but also matching components throughout. It's like working with your engine builder and LISTENING to his expertise as opposed to buying stuff from Jegs, Summit or e-bay. The additional cost factor (IF any) is a good investment. I would say to all it is a GOOD plan to single source your parts for such a project, wether it be KC or Southern or who ever you feel comfortable working with. Trying to save a dollar by 'shoping around' may cost you down the road!

Or would you rather take the expertise they offer and then blow them off and buy your parts from another source? I don't work like that!

[badrich]

Earnie: "carb (MUST be chrome or polished)?" I am shocked that an advocate for cast iron blocks and heads, flat tappets and other original stuff (commendable) would allow his friend to polish or chrome plate his carburetor. A chrome plated or polished aluminium air cleaner covers most of the carb anyway, and a turkey pan (polished, if you must) would cover more yet. Perhaps polished stainless throttle linkage. Line the engine compartment with aluminium sheet. Save the bling for the tuners.

For the street, unless you really like adjusting your valves, I would recommend a moderately radical cam with juice lifters and a compression ratio not over 10:1. My 10.7:1 makes for a nice exhaust note, but 100 octane gas is just too expensive. I wouldn't do anything too fancy on the heads, but matching the ports and removing casting crap seems to make sense. Have fun with the build. Rich

[Excaliber]

Hmmm, chromed throttle linkage, hadn't thought of that, good call. Hey you gotta build 'em the way the owner want's 'em. Engine compartment is all ready alloy skinned, needs some cleanup. This IS a very nice build all ready, personally it's the kind of ride I would take the 'other way' and make even more original if it was my car.

Can't run a hydraulic cam, it's an original side oiler and will only accept solid lifters.

[FUNFER2]

I had Comp Cams grind me my cam. Talked for axp. a hour. The results is a perfect cam, for my driving style. Radical lope, comes in at around 3,000 rpm. (did not want it down too low for the weight of the car) Sounds awesome. 252/260 duration-600 lift- 112 lobe seperation. Solid flat tappet. Earson roller rockers & shafts, double springs, with end stands (a must) Adjust valves once in the spring, checked in summer, backed off in hibernation months. Compression- 10:3:1. Heads- factory steel, ported & polished to the max. I polished most of the alum. on the engine. (still not done) The rest is ceramic coated. Take a look at my gallery for a engine shot. You can email for the full cam specs. and # if interested.
Thanks,

[Excaliber]

Thats a good point FUNFER2, talk to the guys the have vastly more experience with these things than most of us do (and then when you get the specs buy it somewhere else).

It's worth it to spend a little more to gain those valuable insights learned from their years of experience. I'm leaning toward a split profile cam design this time, offering a little more help on the exhaust side? But as we have not yet determined final rear gear ratio or trans gear ratios it's to early to determine cam specs. Compression ratio should be okay at around 10 to 1 with alloy heads and 92 octane gas? Thats about as high as you get around here.

Paint the engine blue, rather than black. I think the blue shows better and it's easier to spot oil leaks. Maybe one of those new Kirkham billet overflow units on the top, or for more flash, maybe just go with chrome? Flash and bling are what this particular build is going to be all about (good or bad, it is what it is).

[FUNFER2]

hehe ! I agree my friend. After a lot of searching & forethought, this cam is great. A buddy owns a chassis dyno & the numbers are good for me. It's also great to dial in motor, timing advance, fuel system ect...rather than on the street. I gained 40 + hp just by the new cam & fine tunning. The guy at Comp Cams was trying to get me to buy one off the shelf that was basicly....made for a old muscle car weighing what, around 3,800 lbs. After he got it into his head, he agreed a 2,400 lb car needed a different cam profile. I was not after a tire shredding all low torque/hp motor. I was not, telling him that I was more knowledgeable !, just that these Cobras are light, short wheel based cars. With his new (lightend... hehe!) approach we came up with this cam. I beleive......it's in their new catalog as a "cobra cam". Have to check. Anyway, remember that with aluminum heads, you can step up the compression, you will not get the detonation that steel has. 10.5 is very safe. You also don't have to worry so much about the exhaust side as the scavenging is accomplished buy porting & polishing. Good head work (it's expensive if you don't feel comfortable) can gain you a tremendous amount of hp. When I've said that the heads on a motor can cost 3k-6k, some guys
think I'm crazy and are shocked. Ya, our high octane is also only 92 but, it's better than paying for racing gas. Since we race sprint cars, I did think for a while of buying a alcohol carb. The hp, cooling and the cheaper cost for fuel would be great but, we do like to travel a bit so, where would I get it !
I did go overboard on the appearance of my block, I actually sanded it smooth, hell, you can't see most of it anyway ! (think I'm still cleaning my nose & ears out after a year !) I did paint it the same body color though. Yes, the kirkham tank looks fantastic ! That's the only one I would go with since the originals tend to be weak & leak with all the vibration of the Cobra.
I like you, love the "flash" of a chromed/polished engine bay, not too much though, I don't particularly like the "Hot Rodded" look of a muscle car, like the Cobra. I may change my mind someday but, not today.

[Excaliber]

In this case it's all about what the OWNER wants. All though with winter coming soon I'm thinking about adding some 'flash' to my engine\engine bay myself...

OK, this thing is GOING DOWN! Time to get a list of suspect parts off to George for a bill of materials (BOM) for cost consideration.
Polished or chrome carb, vacuum secondary for max 'street' comfort.
Chrome 427 valve covers (replacing the finned alloy covers).
Ebrock heads and matching intake (machined according to what George thinks is best).
Fuel log, hoses, connections, etc. GOT to be nice, look good (I hate AN fitting stuff).
Motor is coming ALL the way down, complete overhaul, time will tell whats going in there.
Rings, bearings, gaskets and seals at least.
Dove (or something) roller rocker setup.
Chrome overflow tank, polished timing chain cover, water pump, March pulleys.
5 speed trans looks like a 'budget killer' at this point. I'm thinking 3:1 or 3:3 or there abouts new Currie third member in the current 9" Ford rear? Use existing wide ratio top loader.
New clutch, pressure plate, throwout bearing.
Cam should pull well from around 2000 rpm, up to 6000 or so max.
Exisiting brass top radiator should polish up nicely... ?
Chrome alternator brackets, etc, with chrome alternator.
Chrome or stainless throttle linkage.
Distributor, cap and wires? What looks good?
Use existing road race pan. Paint it? Clean it and leave it bare metal?
Engine color Ford blue, what about the scatter shield color?
Stainless lined engine bay all ready.

Exisiting C5AE-G iron heads. Make sure new heads aren't TO small in the combustion chamber size or to large. Engine is currently VERY sensitive to 'ping' on 92 octane unless timing is 'dialed in'. I don't want to go over 10 to 1 no matter what. Hopefully a little cleanup (hone) on the bore will be okay and use exisiting crank, rods, pistons, etc. I WILL modify the block for better oil flow here and there, chamfer and debur as needed. Engine has about 18K on it since last major overhaul.

[FUNFER2]

One hell of a list ! I love a WELL....planned out, plan buddy.
The best thing on your list is, going with GEORGE ! Chrome, if you don't like polishing. Alum., if you don't like peeling, yellowing & chipping, especially with fuel. I don't have a problem with mech. secondaries on the street and when you hit the throttle, WAM. I like the chrome pentroof with, 427 badges covers too. Can't decide if I'll change mine out this winter or not ? Yes to the heads & George massaging them. I like the braided hoses, just need patience. I'm happy I went with the over drive (Tremec) just because of highway/interstate travel. 2,000 rpm @ 60 mph. I like my Ford 9"/Currie pumpkin, 331 gearing. I like my MSD polished distributor with Taylor wires. Left my oil pan natural, ease of cleaning & don't have to worry about road rash, scraps ect.... Don't see much of it anyway. Scatter shield same color as engine. You get detonation with 92 octane ? What is the compression & timing now ? Difference between 10:0 & 10:5, you wont notice a change anyway, good choice. You may polish the crank while you have it apart, everything else should be fine. Ask him if you should shot pinne (spelling)? the rods ect.... You can restrict the oil in the heads. I would definitely ask George to spend you hard earned labored money in the heads, do as much as you can.
Like I said pal, you've got a great plan !
What do you think you want your cam specifications to be ?