FE, 428, 428.... virgin US engine needs help

[antonio]

hi guys!
i feel a bit ashamed asking such a question on cc forum, but my father used to telling my "the more stupid questions are those you don't ask"...
well, as a EU inhabitant, it's very hard to know a lot about US fabulous SB , BB and FE engine.anyone among you can teach me basic thing i have to know about engine i could met in cobra?
i understand what SB and BB are, but why is there so much sort of engine with diferent cubic inch?
what do you mean by FE?
if one of you has 2 or 3 minutes to "deflower" me, i'll would feel less stupid
ps: my knowledge about engine is good, do not hesitate to use technical world!
best regards
antonio

[elgecko]

The FE is a big block Ford popular in the 1960's.....352,390,428,427.
It was replaced by the newer big blocks........429,460.
Oooooops, my 2 minutes are up
I am sure someone will tune in and give you a complete run down of all the choices of engines.
Dave

[Power Surge]

It's just the description of this particular engine family. The FE family consists mostly of 352, 390, 406, 410, 427 and 428. Then you have more of the more familiar engine families. The Windsor is 260, 289, 302, 351W. Then the 335 series engines, also known and the Cleveland family, and the 385 series engines, most commonly called big blocks (370, 429, 460). Hope this helps.

[Excaliber]

SO many ways to comment on the multiple questions. Perhaps we can start with engine 'series'. Like the small block WINDSOR family (series). Every manufactuer starts with a basic 'game plan' for his engine and that evolves over the years, it gets modified for various reasons. The Windsor series (SB) started in early 1960's as a NEW 221 cubic inch light weight V8. Which quickly grew to 260, then 289, 302 and finally 351W.

Chevy did the same thing with their NEW small block, in the mid 50's. It was a 265, then 283, 327, 350, 400, etc.

FE series (FORD ENGINE) started in the late 50's, so many no doubt I'll miss a few. BASICALLY, 331, 351, 390, 406, 427 and 428.

Then Ford dropped that line and started with the 385 series of engines, 429, 460.

Oh and don't forget Fords original mid 50's overhead valve V8, the Y block series, 272, 292, 312. Hopelessly outdated from day one, it was ALWAYS an over wieght low performance 'pig'.

So what makes a small block as opposed to a big block? It's more about crankshaft\block design than 'cubic inches'. The FE series motors have BIG cranks compared to the small block Windsor series of engines. A 351W can be bored and stroked to 427, but it's STILL fundamentally a 'small block' due to it's inherent design. While a 427 FE really is a 'big block'.

Chevy had a 400 cubic inch small block, based on the original mid 50's 265-283-327 block. But they ALSO had a 400 Big Block, which depending on the year, was referred to as a '396'. The small block 400 and the big block 400 have NOTHING in common.

[farmallmta]

Clarifying or confusing further, we might also add that nomenclature changes over time. The FE engine was typically referred to as Ford's "Big Block" during the 1960's to distinguish it from the "Small Block" which started life as 221 cid. Early nomenclature of the 385 series engines (429, 460) was commonly "Super Block" since it's displacement exceeded that of the mere "Big Block," which we now refer to as the FE.

The fun part is that some factory small block displacements eventually exceeded some factory big block displacements, the small block can be made to equal or exceed big block and super block displacements, and at least one super block displacement (370, in trucks) was smaller than both.

But please, don't bring up the MEL series which had duplicate ci displacements, the heavy truck engines of up to 534cid which put out less power than small blocks quickly became capable of, or the 3 completely different 351cid engines, with the 351C-- the far and away best of the bunch-- getting dumped from manufacture by Ford the quickest. How about the 427, 428, and 429 being available nearly simultaneously in the late '60's? All this and more from the Better Idea Folks at Ford.

Don't care who ya' are, that there just don't make no sense. Trying to make sense or logic out of Ford's V8 engines is enough to get a person babbling like John Kerry explaining how he can simultaneously hold two mutually exclusive and opposite postions on a single black and white issue.

[RockSnake]

The "FE" originally designated Ford/Edsel

[olddog]

A couple FE engines were missed.

332 cid 3.30" stroke x 4.000" bore
352 cid 3.50" stroke x 4.000" bore
360 cid 3.50" stroke x 4.050" bore
361 cid 3.50" stroke x 4.050" bore - think this was Edsel
390 cid 3.78" stroke x 4.050" bore
406 cid 3.78" stroke x 4.130" bore
410 cid 3.98" stroke x 4.050" bore
427 cid 3.78" stroke x 4.230" bore
428 cid 3.98" stroke x 4.130" bore

Did this from memory - hope I didn't screw any up.

[olddog]

Originally Posted by RockSnake

The "FE" originally designated Ford/Edsel

I was told that it stood for fricking explosion, but he was a Windsor guy.

[olddog]

On the Windsor the 221, 260, 289, & 302 are all the same deck height block, but the 351 has a taller deck to accomodate the longer stroke.

There were two mutations of the 351 Cleveland (called 335 series) engine. They are the 351 M and 400 M (M=modified). They are essentially the same block as the 351 C, but they have a big block bellhousing pattern. I'm not sure if it is the same pattern as FE or 385 series, or if FE and 385 share the same bellhousing. Hopefully someone will answer that question.

[Excaliber]

One more minor correction,

FE really does stand for Ford Engine, really it does. But wait, theres more, the best I've heard is "Freaking Expensive", which if not true, is certainly accurate!

As for the 'rest of the story' well farmallmta summed it up quite nicely!

...and those tricky 351M and 400M's, whew they leave you babbling for sure.

[Clois Harlan]

Well that was interesting!

I sure wish someone like George Anderson or Keith Craft would add a little to all this. I have had at least one of those engines in my cars over the years and the absolute worst was the M400. Absolute junk from the git go!

My very first car was a 1962 Fairlane 500 w/a 221 v8 and 3 speed on the column (at least that is how it came from the factory-I stuck a Fenton floor shift in it pretty quick).

Clois

[Ron61]

My first car was a 1958 Fairlane 500 with the 332 police interceptor engine in it and I loved that engine. Not a lot of low end torque, but once you got it up to the power band it would wind forever. First car I ever drove over 125 in. And if I drove it right I could get around 18/21 miles per gallon even in that heavy car.

Oh, yea, and it dripped a few drops of oil every night.

Ron

[antonio]

thanks guys
i know a little bit more about engines now.i understand main diference between BB and SB is not only a matter of seize, but a matter of crankshaft\block. (if i catch it ,sb can be 400 and bb can also be 400...)
what would be the best performance/reliability ratio among FE, chevy, windsor?
i'm not looking for a pump gas frendly engine, i won't use the car everyday, but i have to look for best reliable engine, as parts are hard to find in EU (and good mechanic too!)
antonio

[Excaliber]

I'd make a comment about the most reliable, least expensive, easiest to get parts for, best bang for the buck motor in the UK,,, but then I would hate myself, would have to wash my mouth out with soap and be depressed for three days...

And by the way, under no circumstances would I be caught wearing a 'bowtie' at a car show (well, unless I was in the UK, then MAYBE)!

...bet that leaves our English friend scratching his head.

[ffindling]

Originally Posted by olddog

On the Windsor the 221, 260, 289, & 302 are all the same deck height block, but the 351 has a taller deck to accomodate the longer stroke.

There were two mutations of the 351 Cleveland (called 335 series) engine. They are the 351 M and 400 M (M=modified). They are essentially the same block as the 351 C, but they have a big block bellhousing pattern. I'm not sure if it is the same pattern as FE or 385 series, or if FE and 385 share the same bellhousing. Hopefully someone will answer that question.

FE and MEL have the same bolt pattern,
which is different from the 335 and 385
that have a common bolt pattern


....Fred

[Jac Mac]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

I'd make a comment about the most reliable, least expensive, easiest to get parts for, best bang for the buck motor in the UK,,, but then I would hate myself, would have to wash my mouth out with soap and be depressed for three days...

And by the way, under no circumstances would I be caught wearing a 'bowtie' at a car show (well, unless I was in the UK, then MAYBE)!

...bet that leaves our English friend scratching his head.

He sure will as he live's in France, you know, that country that holds a 24 hr race each year which Ford powered cars dominated in the mid /late 1960's.

Jac Mac

[olddog]

Antonio,

I have been to France about a half dozen times - on business. I stayed in Strousburg (excuse spelling) near the Rhine. I was there about 3 months in 1985. A few weeks each on the other trips. I enjoyed every trip. I saw some American made cars their, but they are as rare as French made cars here in the States. I understand how you would not have had much of a chance to understand our lingo on car engines. Hang around and you will pick stuff up in no time. Just remember, we still use that anchient measuring system.

The bowtie comment above was humor as Chevrolet has an emblem that looks like a bow tie. Most Cobra fans frown on putting a Chevy engine in a Ford car, but people do it all the time.

[antonio]

olddog,
i do appreciate this explanation, i was scratching my head about this bowtie' storie!!

[Excaliber]

Sorry Antonio, I just couldn't bring myself to use the dreaded "C" word, it was hard enough saying bow tie.

[trularin]

Ernie, go ahead and say it.

I want to hear about the soap you are eating and your three day depression.