Hi Rise heads on 427

[double ugly]

Did any originals come with the high riser heads and what are the pros and cons of them? I think I read that NASCAR outlawed them because there was too much HP developed. Any negatives? Are the intakes hard to come by? Lots of questions, I know.

Thanks, John

[Excaliber]

I know some things about the high riser heads, but not all! I run them on my ERA.

Last built in 1964, outlawed for '65 (as the Hemi was also I think). Often called the "Tall and Terrible" heads with HUGE ports that require a matching high riser intake. The medium riser heads were the replacement in '65 forward and some say they do 'almost as well' as a high riser from that year on. "Almost' being a relative term when your a serious racer...

They will support 7000 plus rpm. VERY hard to find and the 'must have' matching intake increases the problem. I run a 2X4 intake, which I've seen offered for sale for as much as $1,500 for the intake alone. Note the heads and intake have no 'cross over' exhaust ports to warm up the intake\base of carb and do require special intake manifold gaskets. This is a serious 'all out' power type application.

Smaller ports generally offer better throttle response for the street, and a lower idle rpm. Of course a lot of this depends on your cam profile and carb setup as well. I run twin four barrels and a fairly healthy cam. My engine does not like to idle below 1000 or 1100 and I've tried several different carbs and two different cams, different compression ratios, etc. I figure it's most likely the high riser intake\heads that require the higher idle rpm (not a problem over all, just mentioning it). The cam profile pulls good from about 1800, perhaps a little high for some, and is 'done' around 6400 rpm. My OLD roller cam would spin to 7000 plus and the high risers worked very well indeed at the rpm range and beyond! I'm afraid I'm really not taking advantage of their flow capacity with the now milder cam (but the power is still VERY good)!

With the old motor (12.5 to 1 c.r., roller solid cam, drag race carbs) I could 'run it out the back door' in 3rd gear, motor screaming with rpm. Now I HAVE to grab 4th just before the line because the rpm just isn't there with the smaller cam.

I would guess there were no originals built or shipped with high risers, but no doubt some were modified with them. My particular heads\intake actually came from an original factory "Thunderbolt" drag car.

I'm pretty stoked to be running "Tall and Terrible" heads with dual fours. It 'feels good' running original parts as opposed to modern alloy heads.

[marcocsx3121]

None of the originals were sold by Shelby with the high risers. Post-delivery, who knows?

[double ugly]

Thanks for very much for the replies. I'm looking at a 427 with them and am concerned that finding an intake to go with them might be a problem. May be more trouble than it's worth.
John

[Byots]

nm .

[FFR428]

Dove makes high riser intakes so not much of a problem finding one. Even original ones are not that hard to find. I was going to go with the HR setup until a mint tunnelport setup fell into my lap. So I spent a bit of time looking at/into them.

G.

[double ugly]

FFR428, how did you find a tunnel port set up?
John

[FFR428]

A gentleman on the net54 forum had them for sale. He had a auction type of listing a few months ago and I was the high bidder. Got them for a very good price. Heads and intake are in fantasitc shape with very little run time.

G.

[FFR428]

Oh I also got 2 sets of Ford TP intake gaskets still in the Ford packages with the deal.

G.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by marcocsx3121

None of the originals were sold by Shelby with the high risers. Post-delivery, who knows?

Actually, several years ago I had spoken to somebody "in the know", with alot of experoience with original cars, specifically about this issue, and he told me he knew of at least one car that came with iron HiRisers from shelby. I think early on, the comp cars were listed as coming standard with those heads in some advertising info.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by FFR428

Dove makes high riser intakes so not much of a problem finding one. Even original ones are not that hard to find. I was going to go with the HR setup until a mint tunnelport setup fell into my lap. So I spent a bit of time looking at/into them.

G.

What intake are you running?

Are the exhaust ports standard height or are they raised?

[marcocsx3121]

Anthony: I also have a lot of experience with the original cars, having been the Eastern Regional Director of The Cobra Club. Someone once told me "never say never", but there sure is a lot of mythology around that seems to have started around the time that the CSX3--- cars began to escalate in value.

[FFR428]

Originally Posted by Anthony

What intake are you running?

Are the exhaust ports standard height or are they raised?

I have a tunnelport C7OE-A single plane 2x4 intake and C7OE-K iron heads. The tunnelport ports are round. Or sort of oval if you will. They are not perfectly round anyway. You might be thinking of the tunnelwedge?

G.

[Mike Bartlett]

Double Ugly,
I am in the process of removing my HR heads and Intake. I just received a set of Edelbrock Stage-II heads and RPM performer intake from Keith Craft.

My HR Dove alloy heads have cracked twice in less than two years. So obviously I am not real wild about them. I got the motor, 20 plus years ago, with the original cast iron heads but when I went to rebuild the motor the heads were shot. That is when I went to the HR Dove heads. I have, I think an original Ford, alloy single 4 barrel HR intake which I am willing to sell now. I am also willing to sell my one good and one cracked, in between the two center exhaust ports, Dove heads. They can be repaired I was told by the head shop that pressure tested them. The crack is about an inch long and goes from the water jacket to the outside of the head.

Everything externally on the heads is the same as any FE head. Valve covers, exhaust, etc. You do need HR intake gasket which are unique just like the heads and intake are. On my CSX the only air cleaner I could fit was the original S&H foam air cleaner which I know robs me of HP. I purchased a K&N filter but the 1/4 higher filter would not allow my hood to close.

I agree with Excaliber. It is nice to have something a bit rare. You don't see too many HR setups. Finding the intake gaskets can at times be tough. If you find some by a couple sets. I could only find the Mr. Gaskets. Not sure if others make em? I think now I just want something a bit more manageable.

Mike

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by marcocsx3121

Anthony: I also have a lot of experience with the original cars, having been the Eastern Regional Director of The Cobra Club. Someone once told me "never say never", but there sure is a lot of mythology around that seems to have started around the time that the CSX3--- cars began to escalate in value.

I'm sure you know alot more about the original cars than me, or what I will ever know, but in the past I was intrigued by tha fact that in some early SAI advertising, the comp cars were listed as coming standard with HiRiser heads. Obvioulsy, not many , if any, of these cars came with these heads. I had talked to several people about original CSX3000 cars, and somehow I got in touch with somebody out west, to specifically answer my question. He told me that he knew of one car, that from what he knew had the original engine, and it had iron HiRiser heads. I also remember about 5-7 years ago there was a CSX3XXX car on ebay, stating that it had the original engine, and it had HiRiser heads, for sale from a classic car dealer I think. I can't remember the serial number, but I think it was a street 427 car. I don't know if it was the same car I was told about prior to that.

I would guess the SAAC registrar for CSX3000 cars would know.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by FFR428

I have a tunnelport C7OE-A single plane 2x4 intake and C7OE-K iron heads. The tunnelport ports are round. Or sort of oval if you will. They are not perfectly round anyway. You might be thinking of the tunnelwedge?

G.

No, I was wondering if you had a set of Dove tunnel port heads , with the raised exhaust ports, for better exhaust flow, i.e. more HP.

[Excaliber]

Couple of notes on my high risers. When I ran the drag strip I removed the air clearners and ran bigger jets, the stock filters barely fit inside the hood scoop as it is and are restrictive.

When I was building my engine I had a heck of a time finding HR intake gaskets. Of course AFTER I got a set and didn't need them, I easily found several more (gotta be Murphys Law). While I have a couple of HR sets 'left over', there not for sale!!!

Original HR heads\intake are easy to find? Sure, except when you actually NEED them, then there nowhere to be found (gotta be Murphys Law once again)!

[double ugly]

Will the turkey pan fit under the hood. I plan on running a Holley 750 with a turkey pan.
Thanks, John

[Excaliber]

Hmmm, I would bet you will have to increase the size of the hole in the hood so it can stick up INTO the scoop area. No turkey pan on mine, but the hole in the hood had to be modified for the back carb air cleaner.

...looks really mean seeing the chrome air cleaners sticking up above the hood nested nicely by the hood scoop, by the way.

[Mike Bartlett]

I never got the Turkey pan while my HR were on my motor. I bet it will be real tight and most likely will need some mods to fit.

Mike