Roller cam and FE engine

[Excaliber]

Schubeck Lifters, WOW, just did a Google thing and I am really impressed!!! Not only with their flat tappets but their unique roller tappets with NO ROLLER BEARINGS. Roller bearings in roller lifters are the fundamental problem.

Consider this from a write up on their flat tappets:

The Radius lifters are esentially a modified flat lifter and are based on the fact that, increasing the useable working face of flat lifter to utilize a faster acting and higher lift cam, will increase the engines performance. This increase in useable surface is achieved, without increasing the diameter,by arcing the flat surface into a radius. The results approach the performance achieved with a roller cam.
My my, I bet those babies cost a small fortune (and sound worth it too)! I'm checking it out for my next engine build, I might even consider solid rollers again! Thanks for the heads up Steve.

[RICK LAKE]

Bunkie314 Yes there are some people who drive very normal. You are right about a once a year check for lash on the valve train. Motors the at run hard bounced off MSD limiters,road raced and autocrossed, they need more maintainance and adjustment. Your cam is not that big. Now if you where running something in the .700" class and an Alum block and heads,you need to be checking. Pushrods geometery is a problem with the FE manifolds. There is alot of movement on the FE manifold. No pins or locators to make sure that the manifold is centered. I spend 2 hours grinding on my manifold for clearance of the pushrods. I do think that adding a .010 oil groove in the lifter bore to leak down to the contact point of the cam and lifter would not hurt. Scrapers and windage trays cut down on oil spray in the bottom of the motor. This could be another reason for failures in motors. Are you running a HV-HP oil pump in your motor? What pressures, hot and cold? Rick L.

[Bunkie314]

Rick, yes I went in between rough and totally wild. I wanted something just on the edge of streetable. I don't road race, point A to B (1/4 mile apart) before the other guy is my thing. I don't baby it by no means, but I don't severely over abuse it either. Sometimes it only takes an "Idle in" to put doubt in someone's mind. I could have gone bigger, but streetability would have been compromised too much. When you can still hear the cam over 1700 its plenty big for the street. Too much of an rpm upshift in the power band doesn't work well with stoplight to stoplight traffic. There is a limit to somewhat "reliability" and "drivability" on the street.

I do bounce a 7K redline. I might not hold it for a sustained periods of time which a road race motor would, it needs to be over fast. If adjustments are becoming a persistent issue, I stand fast to my statement that something is up. I don't care if its a road race, drag, or an old spud truck motor. If your constantly making adjustments to the valve train, you should evaluate and determine why. Maintenance/checking is a separate issue. Spud truck, hmmm... Now that would make an interesting Drag rig, huh? I wonder if anyone has done that before.

Aluminum block, yes. Heads, I already had cast so I compromised with myself. Future upgrade is the plan when/if I get bored with what I have and/or I'm starting to look for hard tenths and want to shed some weight. Aluminum TP heads are a bit more $$ than I want to spend on right now. I need to concentrate on paint before I start tearing into the motor for upgrades or my wife is gonna kill me or not let me have my balls to go out and play with from time to time. I'm a bit perplexed and still thinking about the heat sink issue with aluminum heads as well. Higher thermal conduction rates lowers combustion gas expansion, of course the same could be said about the blocks. I'm still out to lunch on this one.

There is attention to the assembly on the top end as you are well aware of. FE intakes can be interesting to get "located" for good port alignment, push rod clearance, and that magic interface between the intake and head which leaks. Everything needs to be flat prior to assembly, another overlooked area. Too much/to little oil restriction and a path back to the pan (pumping everything to the top end) is a bad thing as well. I'm kind of straddling the fence between a 1/4 mile and street motor. If I wanted every pony I could get and only drove it a 1/4 mile at a time I'd be concerned with the oil I'm letting down there right now. Oil down to the top of the crank is lost HP/torque. Every little detail does add up, but also has an effect on other aspects (wear).

HV, 75 cold, 45 to 50 hot @ idle feeding the lifter galley. This is my first aluminum block and was a bit spooked on plugging or restricting the lifter galley due to possible block wear issues, so I left it open. Lifter life was also a concern. Thought about bushings, but the dollars invested were already over the top for me. I figured maybe next time or during a freshening up and toss in a stroker kit to hit that 511 mark. But, I like the throttle response of a shorter stroke. There has to be some optimum in there somewhere. Wish I had a budget and a shop that would let me tinker and find it.

[RICK LAKE]

Bunkie314 They sell bilge fans for boats that are water proof for $30.00. Some of the Kirkham guys are running them on both side of there motors. They push the air out the side louvres. Works great. There was no turkey pan on the carb. Alot of the air is pulled in through the hood scoop. Boater world sells them, you could also use them on brake system to cool rotors and pads racing. They are small, a 4" fan blows 270cfm and mounts on the inner foot box. It's seams we all have to balance between wife and mistress(car) to stay happy . Mark down every part 50% Building a $75 K kitchen right now instead of my 496 motor. You like whining out a big bore short stroke too Why not use a 5 spd with OD, lower gear in the rear and a torque monster with a 6,000 rpm limit? I run 12.5 with my 452. I will see after the 496 is built whats a better motor . Rick L

[Bunkie314]

Just as easy to put in a clutch fan since I had room. I like the looks as well, shroud is still in the works. I don't have any heat issues, yet. Haven't been out during the real heat in stoplight traffic. The RD duel fan keeps it right at 180. Now if I could just figure out how to get the wife to buy in on...



I've seen a few strokers on the dyno, but they just sound and rev different. Snappy throttle just not there like I have now. They were torque monsters though.

[olddog]

Originally Posted by scottj

uhh... one minor note: Lifters are convex on the face and cam lobes are tapered...that is why they rotate.

My son is building a SB Chevy for a dirt track car (yea I know he is on the dark side). So I pull the lifters out of the box and put a straight edge across the bottom. Indeed they are ever so slightly convex, as stated. By eye sight the center is 0.001 or slightly more longer than the edges. This is a solid lifter. The lifter diameter is about twice the cam lobe width. When it goes in the block (block not done yet), I want to look at how the lobes line up to the lifter bores. I suspect the lobe only hits one side of the filter, and that this is what causes the lifter to rotate.

A couple of the lifters are rough around the edge. They need touched with a stone. Finish quality is not all that great. I remember in the old days lifters were polish like a mirror and shinning. These are not.

Your going to love this. The cam shaft is in two pieces brand new out of the box. The box is pristeen. Not a ding or dent in the box anywhere. Looking at the place it broke the cast material is very course. I have seen pot metal of better quality. I'm not saying that every cam manufacture is the same, but I do suspect that metal quality has gone down, as almost nothing is made in the USA anymore.

[FFR428]

Olddog what brand of camshaft is that??? That is pretty sCaRy...

G.