Roller cam and FE engine

[82ACAUTOCRAFT]

I would like to use a hydraulic roller camshaft for my new FE, but my engine guy does not like them says they are just a source of problem! Feedback welcomed! Flat hydraulic is the way to go or is it? Thanks

[ST]

Maybe you need to find a new “engine guy”.
Bring it down here to Vegas and have Tom Barnard build it for you.
He built mine a few years ago utilizing a hydraulic roller (heads and cam from Keith Craft) and I haven’t has a single issue.

[82ACAUTOCRAFT]

I understand that the systems with the lifters tied by a bar, unlike the factory rollers where the lifters travel in a bore with a groove are proned to failure. When that happens, the lifter rotates and destroys the cam, the bits fall in the engine and clog the oil strainer and you have catastrophic and expensive engine failure! So I am told the small increase in power is not worth the expense.

[RICK LAKE]

82acautocraft There are link bars to keep the lifters from twisting. KC sells custom cams that make alot more than 10-15 HP over stock catolog ones. It's like anything else, you need to match the parts to get the best power and drivability from your motor. You need to remember that a cobra is light and only will take 600hp and 600 lbs of tork and still be streetable. Solids are nice for sound and do make a little more power at 6,000 rpm that hydro lifters, but who want to check the adjustment once a month for the correct lash,(I think that is with a hot motor). Build a lite weight valve train and you can spin the motor to 7 Grand. Crane make a small roller cam that is very streetable and makes strong power in the mid range. You didn't say what size the motor is, compression, fuel system, carb,FI, power adder, trans, gear ratio, what are you going to do with the car, 1/4 mile,show and shine, autocross, road race, you have left a large unanswered script to be filled in. I would also check with other machinists and FE builders about this. Check out the FE forumn. Gessford machine, Barry R. Dave Shoe, Keith Craft and Jay Brown would be good placed to start and get good info. Rick Lake

[82ACAUTOCRAFT]

Rick Thanks, I know what the link bars are for, but they are the weak link, factory system do not use them, they use a machined slot in the block for the same purpose. Racers glue small screens all over the lifter galley to prevent small parts from falling into the sump in case of failure. Also, engines are rebuilt often, not like street motor.

[jwoodard]

It kinda sounds like you already have decided against a Hyd. roller by stating the negative aspects. Are these things you have experienced previously, or are these what your builder has told you?
There are plenty of folks on this board who are running these type cams without experiencing failures, so maybe the technology has been improved. If you truly want to run one, then do yourself a favor and at least discuss it with some notable builders mentioned earlier.
I'm like ST. I'm running one in my FE with nary an issue.

[FUNFER2]

Rick- good advise. Thought I'd mention a small correction, if anything. When you said "solid", which do you mean, solid roller or flat tappet (I assume solid roller). I have the latter & only adjust the valves twice per year. If it's the solid roller, yes, you'll be adjusting the lash all the time. With our sprint car, we check it after every race but only takes 10 minutes. With my cobra, I like the flat tappet.

[rblong]

Originally Posted by ST

Maybe you need to find a new “engine guy”.
Bring it down here to Vegas and have Tom Barnard build it for you.
He built mine a few years ago utilizing a hydraulic roller (heads and cam from Keith Craft) and I haven’t has a single issue.

Dito here!!!

[Excaliber]

Real men run a flat tappet cam and aren't afraid to adjust their valves once in awhile. A hydraulic cam works well with an automatic trans.


...now where did I put my flame suit...

[DonC]

82:
Got a flat tappet w/hyd. lifters in the 428 built for me by Joe Lapine of Danbury Competition Engines. Asked him about rollers when I contacted him about the build and he felt, as others do, that the small increase wasn't worth the potential problems that "in some cases" crop up with them. During our discussions I also told him I wanted and engine with 450 at the crank that would last for 100,000 miles before I had to futz with it so that may have had a bearing on his choice for the build.
15000+ miles in two driving seasons and still going strong.
DonC

[eschaider]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Real men run a flat tappet cam and aren't afraid to adjust their valves once in awhile. A hydraulic cam works well with an automatic trans.


...now where did I put my flame suit...

Ernie,

I think its firesuit (?) but it'l probably protect you from the 'flames' also ...


Ed

[RICK LAKE]

82acautocraft As far as a link problem, they have perrty well fixed the breakage of the links as long as the lift of the cam is under a MAX spec. I think it is about .675" total lift. Crane added oiling hole to the bottom of the flat plate to lube the roller wheel on the cam lobe. As far as the screens in side motors to catch parts, maybe 50% of the time they help, if a lifter comes out of the bore after a pushrod breaks. I have repaired more motors with the roller pieces in the oil pan and in the pump screen than anything else. The screen helps oil droplets get smaller when returning to the crank and hitting the camshaft on the way by. I have only seen 2 motors loose roller rocker or lifter. Both where from not peroiling motors on startup. Both companies said this was the failure and replaced the parts. Solid roller lifters or tappets need to be adjusted, my hydros, set it and forget it. Down side is pulling the rocker shafts off for the winter and bleeding the lifters in the spring. Cranes anti pumpups don't bleed down. If I was spinning a motor at 8,000 rpm solid would be the way to go, but I don't, my motors are built for torque with a 6,500 rpm limit. I will change gears and trans before building a 700 hp motor. 1 small note, you can run hydro lifters(roller) up to 7,800 rpm with the right valve train and a set of beehive springs. This is an LS1 motor. I am looking at the same for my 496 FE next spring.
Chappin You ownly say this because your wife is busy with the baby And 215 in which toe?? Rick

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Real men run a flat tappet cam and aren't afraid to adjust their valves once in awhile.

Solid flat tappet cams also sound cooler in a big block. I don't recall reading any posts where somebody wrote "boy, I sure wish I had gone with a hydraulic."

[RodKnock]

Warning, I'm not a mechanic.

Aren't there problems with the distributor gear as well when using roller cams? Sometimes people will use a brass distributor gear, which gets chewed up and fail, and instead should use a cast iron gear.

In my opinion, it boils down to cost. A flat tappet cam and lifters is about $200 +/- and a roller cam can run $1,000-1,500 +/-. Either way, always use quality parts.

[Excaliber]

Distributor gear selection remains an issue no matter what cam you use, the gear needs to match the cam. I was running a brass gear with my solid roller cam, I switched to a steel gear when I went flat tappet.

[RedCSX1]

Originally Posted by ST

Maybe you need to find a new “engine guy”.
Bring it down here to Vegas and have Tom Barnard build it for you.
He built mine a few years ago utilizing a hydraulic roller (heads and cam from Keith Craft) and I haven’t has a single issue.

1. I think you also want to mention he owns Tom's Motorsport. One of the best people in the industry. Also one of the smartest Strong recommendation on him doing anything. Was there this week. He did the suspension on my Shelby which included custom valved Bilstein shocks. Incredible.

2. I run a hyd roller cam in my Pond motor. Its great, Keith has Comp Cams custom grind these cams to his specs. You want to make sure you use Crane Roller Lifters. They are the best in the industry. It would be worth giving Keith a call.

3. Do not take any of Ernies advice seriously.
Distributor gears are no longer a problem. I run a steel gear which Crane makes on my MSD distributor. Will last as long as any other gear when mated properly to the cam gear. Rod Knock do not use a cast gear with steel cam gear. It will be chewed up for sure.

4. Last but not least do takes ST advice and find another engine builder who is up on the latest in the performance technology.

[RodKnock]

I run a custom ground hydraulic roller cam from Crower with .612/.634 lift and have had no problems and it runs perfectly. I would highly recommend Crower and I think they're the best in the industry.

Morgan, I leave engine building to the professionals.

[496fe]

The concept of roller lifters is that they allow the cam to have steeper open and close ramps than flat tappets, with the same reliability. This is where the extra horses come from. The hydraulic roller offers the best of both worlds - quieter, less maintenance with more hp.

BTW, always bear in mind that the venerable FE's main bottleneck is breathing. When you hear the stories about only 10-15 HP roller gains, they could be true because high-lift, long-duration cams, whether flat tappet or roller, are possibly strangled downstream in the air flow of the heads anyway.

Brian

[Burgs]

Have you heard one of Keith's 600+hp hydraulic roller FE motors??

[496fe]

KC motors are the real deal. I am using his cam and a lot of his free advice. It is a good compromise for serious power but still idles at < 1,000 RPM. If I had to do it all over again, I would probably just write the check (ouch) for the complete motor and have it done right the first time. I ended up going down the wrong path a couple of times and in the end, spent the same $$$.