Persistent Oil Leak...getting worse...

[Dinobyte]

I know the lore of the FE...they always leak. I get it. However I think mine is leaking excessively.

I just had the right head replaced due to a milling issue where the water broke through the thin area on the head and fouled the oil and number 3 cylinder. Things happen and the builder assured me only 1% of the heads he has done have done this.

Okay, so what about the oil leaking...even after the head is replaced? No oil is apparent from the head gasket or valve cover gasket on the other side.

The oil is dripping from the bell housing...in quantity...half dollar to two half dollar size pools after each park on minimum.

The engine is 5 months old (on this build...it is a 1963 427 Top Oiler), has 1600 miles on it, and is doing this???? I called the builder, and wanted options...like who should I take it to to fix the issue or would they like to ship me a new motor. The only response I got from the wife of the builder is...we will send you a check, you send us back the motor. Wrong answer in my opinion.

So I would like to find an expert on FE's in either the San Francisco Bay area, or the LA/San Diego (preferably LA) area to ship the car too and have the job done right. I have a couple of ideas for both areas, and would like to solicit addtional vendors or feedback on both.

FE Specialities in Sacramento...

Mitech Racing Engines in Placentia...

Any others????

[DonC]

Check the back of the intake manifold where it joins the block. The other place where that type of leack shows up is a rear main seal.
If it's the manifold, relatively easy fix. Rear main much less so but it can be done without pulling the engine.
DonC

[Dinobyte]

No oil from the manifold.

[RICK LAKE]

Dinobyte If you have owned a older harley with chain oiler, your FE is doing the same thing, marking the area. Mine leakes about the size of a quarter after running. Diapers under the car or cardboard work the best. You will need to pull the oil pan and rear cap. See if it is a rope seal or neoprime seal. As long as the oil doesn't get into the bell housing or on the clutch surfaces, I would leave it alone. Check the oil level, (cold) for going for a drive. I tryed twice to fix the leak and stopped. They sell a leak dye kit with light for about $75.00 that you put dye in the oil, road test then use light and glasses to find where leak is coming from. Make sure you cleaned the area good with cleaner before you do this. You will see where the leak is coming from. you have a 50% chance of fixing it. Rick Lake

[Manowar]

Leaking galley plugs at rear of block will produce such a leak. Trans and bellhousing must come off if the easy checks don't reveal it.

[Clois Harlan]

I am still suspicious about the intake. Take some brake cleaner and spray the back of your intake and bell housing and wipe it down to where it is clean to the touch. Then drive your car for an hour or so and take a piece of white tissue and wipe along the back of your intake and also along the edges of your valve covers. Also, re-tighten your oil pan (my bolts became loose after a while of normal driving ). I doubt if your rear mains are leaking yet but you never know. The FE is 40 year old technology.

Clois

[CJ428CJ]

And don't rule out the transmission. I was getting a small drip off the bottom of my bell housing. I assumed it was the rear main seal or intake manifold but it turned out to be leaking from the front of the transmission. I had to use oil dye to find the problem. That dye is good stuff. Well worth the $75 or so for the dye, goggles, special flash light kit. I've used it several times over the years and it works great. It's amazing how you think a leak is coming from one place but after adding the dye, you trace the glow along some seam somewhere and find out that it's coming from somewhere else entirely.

Chris

[tcrist]

Try Craig Hill @ Top Of The Hill Performance Center in Livermore. (925) 449-3330
Builds a lot of Cobras. Builds motors and has a dyno in his shop.
www.topofthehillpc.com

[RodKnock]

I don't know if you want to or can pull the engine, but when I had a leak in my engine I pulled it and brought it down to Cal Dyno in Redwood City. I can't remember the owner's name but the's right off Broadway in the backshop of Elgin's Cams. He's very reasonable and when you have the engine out, you can see most everything. I also used a flourescent dye and turned the lights off in the dyno room. My leak was a brand new cracked oil pan from the engine builder. Good luck.

[Burnd]

Dynobite:
With 5 mths and 1800 miles on the motor, you are going to be hard pressed to get these guys to make good on the build. I been to that "leak" show so many times, I should get a PhD in leak technology. I always figured I pissed off the leak god and he's getting even for all that naughty stuff I did in the past. Anyway; I wouldn't pull that motor for a stupid leak; and i really, really hate leaks. My instinct says you are "missing it"; cause we have all done that too. It is REALLY hard to see some times.

Having said that; I'm assuming your a little like me and "prefer" someone else do it. I am too old, tired and cranky to crawl back into that engine bay. So here are "MY" discovered leaks at one time or another on prize leaky FE:

Rear corner of valve covers is culprit 90% of the time. If you pulled those valve covers more than 2 or 3 times and didn't change the gasket; you can bet one nut it's leaking. The gaskets compress and harden. OR, you didn't retork them a couple times since build (25lbs as I recall). And it weeps out and down the back corner to the bell housing and off the flywheel teeth (if there is no inspection cover). It looks like a rear main leak.

Your odds are even worse if you have aluminum Edelbrock heads. I know; I gottem and they're garbage. Edelbrock considers .060 out, (with-in "their" spec), so the gap where the head & block mate, leaks the majority of the time. I milled mine flush cause Edelbrock wouldn't make good on them. It looks like a rear main leak.

Rear of manifold is next in line. Again; really hard to see leakage some times. It takes heat and when you shut down and she cools, a very fine stream leaks from the corner of the dam where the head & manifold gap is filled. Not sure if you corked or dammed yours. It looks like a rear main leak.

Remote Oil Filter adapter on block has 1 bolt not tight and it travels on the lower side of the block and drips off bell housing when you stop. It's a puzzling trip from the front to the rear. But your frame rails will never rust.

Cast Aluminum pan has a teeny, weeny, tiny scumbag weld crack you can barely see and it leaks after she heats up good. It travels straight back and drips off the flywheel but it looks like rear main is dripping. That same pan has the drain plug thread hole drilled cocked so the plug can't seal flush against the brass washer. Naturally; that's Canton quality too. That said; they did replace the pan and for 300 bucks they ought too. It's the $1000 of aggravation they couldn't compensate for.

Rear breather on manifold leaks off the back of manifold and down around bell housing and winds up in the vicinity......... of a rear main seal leak.

Ya ready??....... Distributor shaft hole...... Yep; O ring was bad coupled with back pressure in the galley. HOWEVER, did NOT look like a rear main leak. It looked like timing chain cover.

SOLUTION with path of least resistance: I am going on the basis you don't want to be bothered doing it yourself and I fully agree with you. Check in town for a station with a decent mechanic. Tell him to steam, clean and wipe that block down squeeky clean; put an ounce of dye in the oil; Take it out and drive 30 minutes. Bring it back in and put it UP ON THE LIFT; Put the Black Light on it and see where the oil is squirreling out. Probably cost you $100/150 bucks and save yourself a $1000 worth of aggravation. If it's one of the above. Pay HIM to fix it. If its the rear main; give Southern some free publicity although 5 months is still a stretch to go after them.

Good luck with it; I empathize with ya.

Bernie

[wizard man]

burned sounds like you know your fe,s i have small leaks just as you described and i to feel like the leak god is mad at me but that part of having a 612 horse fe pony snap my neck back sure makes up for the small leaks

[wizard man]

by the way no problems at all with my keith craft fe just call him he will build a neck snapper

[Michael C Henry]

Fe take some precausions to keep them from leaking. The rear where the intake manifold and block and heads. If you have milled much, the manifold fits so close to block the original cork gasket going from head to head accross the block will not fit . Oil resistant RTV works as a substitute. fill the corners . Do not cut the exscess intake manifold gasket material sticking up along the valve cover rail. If milling was right head and intake rails should be close to the same height. After torque intake manifold , lightly and carefully peen exscess intake manifold gasket material down to the valve cover rail with the bulk of the material going toward the lower area ,rather it be manifold or head. Oil resistant RTV again any gaps. I used oil restant RTV for valve cover gasket. Apply bead to clean valve cover . building a smooth 1/4" layer . Let the RTV dry enough to form a good skin. Wipe a coat of oil onto the sealing surface of the head and intake manifold with your finger and the bolt the valvre cover loosly into place( slight pressure). wait tilll the RTV has set up to tighten much. result is it doesn't leak and gasket is reusable. Who said all fe's leak? I used to wiz most of my money as a young man in 69through 75 on FE engines.

[CJ428CJ]

Burnd has good advice but my experience has been that you don't need to take it out on the road for 30 minutes. Let it sit in the shop and run for 5 minutes. Adjust the rpms around a bit up to 3000 rpms or so. That is usually way more than needed to locate the leak. The problem with taking it out on the road for 30 minutes is that if the leak is even halfway bad, you've blown died oil all over your motor and undercarriage making it more difficult to find exactly where the leak is coming from.

Try the 5 minute shop test first. If you can't see anything after that you can always increase the run time or take it out on the road.

Chris

[pgermond]

Originally Posted by Dinobyte

The only response I got from the wife of the builder is...we will send you a check, you send us back the motor. Wrong answer in my opinion.

Maybe I'm missing something, but it sounds like a money back guarantee. Send it back and start over.

[Got the Bug]

Dinobyte,

Guessing you would probably have to cover the freight charges to return the engine? Regardless, I have to agree to with Phil that it may be better to take the refund and move on. It sounds like there are enough issues with the motor, heads, etc., that you have to wonder about the long term reliability of the engine.

I went through a similar situation when I had a Speedster built in the late 90's, so I can relate.

Doug

[427 S/O]

BS....Not all FE's leak.

[4pipes]

Dinobyte, go to Tony Oddo at T.O.E Performance in Suisan City. He's built many FE's.
http://www.toeperf.com/

[Keithc8]

I can not see an engine builder taking an engine that is running perfectly fine back because of an oil leak on a used block. I tell everyone that gets a FE engine do not be surprised if it leaks at the rear main seal. I have built enough of the new and old ones to know. We have tried evrything that we can find and since we do not make the block or machine the seal area we can not stand behind rear main seal leaks. We do check them on the dyno and if they leak we do all that we can to fix them. We have even gotten Chrysler Big Block rear main seals and worked on them for the blocks that seem to be a little big in the rear seal area and have had some suddes doing that in bad situations. It is not only the size of the seal area it is also how it is machined in relationship to the center of the mains. We machine the early 302 and 351 blocks that we do for a one piece rear main seal and find the original two piece seal area of center as much as .030 and it is hard to seal up something that is that much of center. The blue prints for the origins FE engines had most of the tolerances at a plus or minus .025 for areas like this. Even the lifter bores are listed with a plus or minus .025 tolerance for their location. This means that you could have one bore plus .025 and another minus .025. This is mone reason the factory used a rope seal. I have not been able to find any rope seal of late and then they had their own problems. I have had this with all of the original and new FE blocks. You can not machine these blocks for a one piece seal because of the size of the flywheel flange and bolt pattern. Now if we had cranks made with a small block bolt pattern and we could get flywheels with a small block bolt pattern with a 184 teeth we could do this. Maybe I need to look into a new way to go and any ideal would be nice. If I get a FE engine that runs good and is giving me no problems and only leaks a one to two inch circle after setting over night I am happy. Good luck, Keith Craft

[Barry_R]

Amen to that!

I spend way too much time trying to get the rear main seal "perfect" - using a variety of chemicals and such. And I still get a leaker from time to time.

I think an FE is the only engine that you assemble with nails...

I cannot really comment on the amount of leakage or the reasons - that stuff is nigh unto impossible to isolate sometimes even with the car in front of you, much less over the internet.