427 SOHC kits for $11,000!!!

[ng8264723]

Oh alright the term JUNK is misleading huh? I have read everyone of Jay's posts. The rockers fall apart. The cams don't turn in the heads when torqued down. The front plate is not flat. The heads leak in multiple places. The valves are cut correctly. The seats need to be reinstalled. The manifolds leak. I would like to see someone using a complete motor and making 1/4 miles passes with it. Where are the successful builds. My posts aren't ODD. Your's are not informed and sarcastic. At least I have objective evidence of a build from a very reliable source. Where does you info come from. The stuff is JUNK. It should be recycled maybe made into alum cans. Would you rather me say how wonderful his crap is. How would you like to spend 11,000 and not be able to turn the cam in the heads. Don't be a smartass

[Great Asp]

Originally Posted by ng8264723

Oh alright the term JUNK is misleading huh? I have read everyone of Jay's posts. The rockers fall apart. The cams don't turn in the heads when torqued down. The front plate is not flat. The heads leak in multiple places. The valves are cut correctly. The seats need to be reinstalled. The manifolds leak. I would like to see someone using a complete motor and making 1/4 miles passes with it. Where are the successful builds. My posts aren't ODD. Your's are not informed and sarcastic. At least I have objective evidence of a build from a very reliable source. Where does you info come from. The stuff is JUNK. It should be recycled maybe made into alum cans. Would you rather me say how wonderful his crap is. How would you like to spend 11,000 and not be able to turn the cam in the heads. Don't be a smartass

I'm not being a smartass, I'm trying to suggest that you read your posts before posting (unless of course you talk like that all the time in which case we can all draw our own conclusions).

Your posts look more like the manufacturer ran over your dog instead of selling a poor product. Junk, junk, junk, junk......yeah, we get it.

Even the guy that never bought the product says it's junk.

It "looks" more like you guys are dragging some other issues into this thread rather than reporting on the product. Superfleet ran in here with his first post bashing the manufacturer. I'm informed enough to see that.

You guys with the junk posts look like you have some axe to grind with the OP and the manufacturer, with the exception of Superfleet who bought the kit, and did not get what he wanted. Fair enough and good reporting.

For me, less adjectives is what's needed, and more details.

Eric

[ng8264723]

Eric,
Why don't you take some of your hard earned cash and try for yourself. The adjectives were used to explain a poor product. History has a way of showing superior products. They rise to the top like cream. Dove has been making FE stuff for years. Why did the edelbrock heads blow them away? Why did the edelbrock manifolds blow them away? The reason is they are a quality product. They don't leak and are reliable in every way. If Jim Dove's products were so wonderful everyone would run them. I was so close to laying down the 11,000 grand. I instead invested the money in my Kirkham. David's products are gorgeous. The machining quality in the Kirkham's is like artwork. Jim Dove would own the market if he had simliar quality products. The fact is he doesn't. I work too hard for my cash to gamble on his poorly machined products. Look at the referenced posts for pics of his stuff. I'm sorry if my adjectives were offensive. They are in fact true. The problem with this site is people are not apt to trust reviews. There are a lot of skeptics. With a product of this cost I would rather have someone show me and prove it's quality before I buy. The amount of negative posting in conjunction with the lack of ONE positive critique is disturbing. I spent $65,000 on a Kirkham without ever actually seeing one. Why? Extensive review only showed one neg post about the thin powder coating. This has been fixed every other post over the last 5 years have been positive. When my car arrived I was even more impresssed seeing it in the flesh! Anyway, the poor machine and quality leads me to the adjective of JUNK once again. Please if someone out there runs these motors successfully let us know!!!!!!!!!

[Great Asp]

Would you mind posting your first name? That way we could be on a first name basis....

I'm not spending my money on a motor, I just bought a KC 496 FE.

okay, you love your Kirkham, I love them too. You own one, I've ridin in them. I could not agree more with you on this point. WONDERFUL cars!

You have experience with Kirkham as an owner, and can report to the attributes of the Kirkham experience, more than I can because I have only ridin in them. Some day I will get to go to their shop and drool on their products. But I can tell people "I rode in a Kirkham and saw the fit and finish first hand and it is an excellent product" even thought I have never owned one.

But could you explain in detail how YOU have developed an opinion on "this" kit? A comparison to another kit you did buy, since you never really did buy this kit. Or do you just feel like you dodged a bullet?

You have been to "this" manufacturer's shop, and you have been to Edelbrock's shop and can report what you saw as differences. Maybe you have owned both heads, and can personally report what you saw in the heads you purchased. Because if you can't, your just bashing this kit without a reference point, since you don't know from your own experience, like you can about your Kirkham.

Eric

Speed is the only poster so far that I can see "bought" the kit, and did not get what he should have, or what he thought he should get. However his first post at CC was a negative post about this kit.

[RedCSX1]

Eric,

Give it up, He and other including myself have opinions based on doves past history of poor quality. Heads, manifolds you name it. A friend had one of his intakes. He had to take it down to a machine shop severl times to have it machined to fit. The data from people that took a chance with dove products is long and deep with notes on poor quality and poor workmanship. A person does not need to own a product to get an accurate opinion.

Oh yeah, my name is Morgan

[Great Asp]

Originally Posted by RedCSX1

Eric,

Give it up, He and other including myself have opinions based on doves past history of poor quality. Heads, manifolds you name it. A friend had one of his intakes. He had to take it down to a machine shop severl times to have it machined to fit. The data from people that took a chance with dove products is long and deep with notes on poor quality and poor workmanship. A person does not need to own a product to get an accurate opinion.

Oh yeah, my name is Morgan

Fair enough and well said Morgan, thanks!

Yeah, I just get tired of people either nut swinging or bashing a product when the information posted doesn't give an experience.

I'm done.

Thanks Morg!

E

[ng8264723]

My name is Chris and I agree with Morgan. Morgan I give you credit. You worded it eloquently.
Eric,
Or do you just feel like you dodged a bullet? ABSOLUTELY!!!!!!!!!!!!
Do I own edelbrock stuff? YES!!!!!!!! A few heads a few manifolds. A lot of my friends also run them. None of us have ever had a problem. EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm done here
chris

[Great Asp]

Originally Posted by ng8264723

My name is Chris and I agree with Morgan. Morgan I give you credit. You worded it eloquently.
Eric,
Or do you just feel like you dodged a bullet? ABSOLUTELY!!!!!!!!!!!!
chris

Originally Posted by ng8264723

I spent $65,000 on a Kirkham without ever actually seeing one.

I bet you feel like you dodge machine gun fire.

Eric

[601HP]

Originally Posted by RedCSX1

Eric,

Give it up, He and other including myself have opinions based on doves past history of poor quality. Heads, manifolds you name it. A friend had one of his intakes. He had to take it down to a machine shop severl times to have it machined to fit. The data from people that took a chance with dove products is long and deep with notes on poor quality and poor workmanship. A person does not need to own a product to get an accurate opinion.

Oh yeah, my name is Morgan

Ditto what he said.

I almost took a sledge hammer to my Dove Tunnel Wedge because of casting issues which created an extremely lean air/fuel situation. Diagnosis of that problem was difficult.

When I first saw the visible porosity on the bottom of the runners, I swore it was gonna leak. This intake was shipped to me by a re-seller who told me face-to-face at Ford Carlisle years ago (1998 maybe) and before I saw my intake, he typically returns at least half of the intakes he receives from Dove before he sells one. If mine appeared to be OK, what did the rejects look like?

Occasionally I'm reminded of a witticism expressed by a co-worker years ago when he said "You can't make chicken salad out of chicken sh**."

For you folks who don't care for the way some of us express our prior experiences or observations with this manufacturer: go ahead, spend your money on the "stuff" coming from Dove. Good luck.

David

[ng8264723]

Thanks David. You try to tell the truth from what you have learned through research and you get scrutinized.
chris

[joyridin']

Just so you know Eric, I live about 8 miles from Dove's facility. I've been to his place twice with one of our tooling distributors. He uses garbage to make his parts. Garbage in, garbage out.

I don't need to buy a single thing from him. All I had to do was look how the items are manufactured and that answers it all.

Now, I also visit Trick Flow, which is about 30 miles from my house. THAT is a nice facility. New machines, new tools, new flow bench, new dyno and beautiful castings. Exactly what you would expect when dropping big dollars.

[Great Asp]

Originally Posted by joyridin'

Just so you know Eric, I live about 8 miles from Dove's facility. I've been to his place twice with one of our tooling distributors. He uses garbage to make his parts. Garbage in, garbage out.

I don't need to buy a single thing from him. All I had to do was look how the items are manufactured and that answers it all.

Now, I also visit Trick Flow, which is about 30 miles from my house. THAT is a nice facility. New machines, new tools, new flow bench, new dyno and beautiful castings. Exactly what you would expect when dropping big dollars.

Seriously, THIS kind of reporting is great for me.

You've "seen" this kit's facility, and another facility and therefore can offer a constructive opinion.

The "I know a guy who had a problem" and then rail the manufacturer is weak sauce for me. Or, (sorry Chris) "I almost bought this kit sight unseen and would have got screwed, so I hate the product" does not bring anything to the table IMO.

Lay down the facts and leave the bashing out. This is a highly intelligent forum, we can draw opinions without a beating.

E

[ng8264723]

Don't apologize to me. You have your viewpoints how stange they are! I gave you specific examples of the poor machine process. Why you prefer the drive by guy is beyond me. Although he does add info. The specific points with the links with images is much more than saying I knew a guy. Don't change the truth. The data in the links is fairly objective. He has picstures and measurements. Again far more than I knew a guy.
SOME PEOPLE YOU JUST CAN"T REACH

[Great Asp]

Originally Posted by ng8264723

Don't apologize to me. You have your viewpoints how stange they are! I gave you specific examples of the poor machine process. Why you prefer the drive by guy is beyond me. Although he does add info. The specific points with the links with images is much more than saying I knew a guy. Don't change the truth. The data in the links is fairly objective. He has picstures and measurements. Again far more than I knew a guy.
SOME PEOPLE YOU JUST CAN"T REACH

Chris,

I don't remember GIVING a view point, except more facts and less "junk, junk, junk". You don't seem to mind throwing daggers at a company from behind your keyboard, and up until I asked, you did not even post your first name! No risk cheap shot. Check your spelling, grammer, form complete sentences, and make salient points before you get excited and press the "submit reply" button.

"SOME PEOPLE YOU JUST CAN"T REACH"

I could not agree more.

E

[Woodz428]

I do know that Dove has a poor history with porosity problems from first hand experience, but that isn't very recent. I ,too, wanted something other than anecdotal references. Someone could have relayed a story I had relayed to them 15 or 20 years ago, but that doesn't speak to what they are doing TODAY. That's probably why myself as well as others wondered about the validity of some comments. It is especially important when a first time poster is making the claims. I will say, that just because you gave a link to someone elses comments doesn't supply any added credibility if that person is also an unknown. I am also familiar, first hand, with some of the original cammer stuff and it wasn't "all that" when it came to quality. Many things have improved in the probably 30+ years that Dove has been in business and a more detailed and current analysis isn't too much to ask. I agree that the "junk,junk,junk" comments do little to describe anything accurately. I say this with full knowledge of Dove's spotty record, but things can and do improve. The pics that were linked to of the product appeared to be fairly well made and add as much to the conversation as the genralizing of "junk". IMHO.

[SoTxButler]

I guess I got LUCKY.

Speaking first hand, the Dove aluminum 427 block, the DOVE aluminum high riser heads, the DOVE "tall and terrible" intake manifold, the DOVE timing cover, the DOVE water pump, and the DOVE dry sump pan and pump have all performed flawlessly now since 1993. No leaky castings, no extra machining, no nothing. Oh, I forgot, the DOVE shaft mounted rockers too.

All this went together with a Moldex billet crank, carrillo rods, arias pistons, Comp Cam, etc., and it all worked properly.

Now that I know DOVE makes nothing but JUNK....guess I just got LUCKY!!!!!!

[PANAVIA]

Porosity in castings is usually a failure in climate control in the casting area. AKA too much water in the AIR. -- you would think it would burn off but no.

--Steve

[olddog]

I was at the Columbus, Ohio fair grounds Ford swap meet yesterday. I met Jim Dove there. He had a cammer and quite a few parts on display. He is a pleasant and interesting man to talk to. The cammer heads that were there looked very good (I didn't move them around and inspect closely). The block did have a few porous spots (I did inspect it fairly close). Honestly I doubt those spots would hurt anything. He did say that block was going into his personal car, and he could have picked a better block to bring. He also told me about some improvements he made by adding a couple bolts in the timing chain cover to solve a leak issue.

He said the block is the Can Am block. It was aluminum with (I assume) steel sleeves. The sleeves are not cast in the block. I think he said they are a light pressed in fit. He explained it fairly well, but my mind wondered (I had just got word that my neighbor boy who is like a son was killed). Wish I could remember more.

I felt privileged to have touched a cammer and to have seen one apart.

These parts are not top of the line perfect quality, but they don’t look that bad either. The only way to know for sure is to take one to a top shop and let them do a blue print on it. A local shop, I trust, told me that every aftermarket block they have ever done needs some work, with some being worse than others. I figure none are perfect.

[PANAVIA]

will someone please close this thread.

[feadam]

has anything happened with these kits did they sell and how many