FE gods tell me what the engine builder did to me here

eddytheb · #1 (**permalink**) 07-19-2007, 04:54 PM

Long story bad engine guy 90k car and this is what I find after 3 min run. Please tell me whats wrong here I think I know but not a ford guy and want to here it from some one who is.

Suomien · #2 (**permalink**) 07-19-2007, 05:19 PM

missing spacers?

eddytheb · #3 (**permalink**) 07-19-2007, 05:23 PM

kina what I thought do you have a pic or part number for them thanks

Jac Mac · #4 (**permalink**) 07-19-2007, 06:30 PM

Those appear to be Competition Cams Rockers which going by the pic in their catalog should have Spacer Tubes- not springs between each pair. They are also 'Handed' in reference to the adjuster screw for clearance in the pushrod area. Yours appear to have been fitted correctly in reference to that -just no spacers!

Jac Mac

mr0077 · #5 (**permalink**) 07-19-2007, 06:56 PM

Yours rockers look like mine except mine have these spacers...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/FORD-...QQcmdZViewItem
I think your rocker jumped the track...

blykins · #6 (**permalink**) 07-19-2007, 06:59 PM

Looks like #5 intake has jumped the track as well. Who was the builder? We need to know so we can avoid him later on...

RICK LAKE · #7 (**permalink**) 07-19-2007, 07:12 PM

Ed couple of things, The pushrod has no marks on it? Is it bent, roll it on a flat surface to check. I there a good rub mark on the inside of the rocker by the shaft? The picture is not clear in this spot. It looks like the adjust nut was not tighten down enought and backed off the rocker. The spring keep the rocker in location over the valve. I would say without see the motor that these 2 rockers where loose after adjustment and when reved up it poped the pushrods out of place. Make sure the threads in the rocker are not stripped. 400 lbs of spring pressure when opened could have cause this to happen. I would also check for spring bind with the valves all the way open. safe spec is .100" between coils. Check the 2 lifters and cam lobes on these bores, If the cam went flat same thing will happen. Check the bottom of the lifter for damage. Cam lobes could be wiped. If solid or hydro lifters you can get them out with a magnet and not have to pull the intake. If you want to talk, call me 732-254-3536 Rick L. Hope for just loose adjuster nuts

eddytheb · #8 (**permalink**) 07-19-2007, 07:19 PM

Push rods bent 4 of them and three valves one even throw a keeper the builder was I will hold off for now this is not all that has been wrong with this deal I cant even tell you how pissed I am My customer has been waiting two years for this car almost one year was waiting for this motor. Hell I don't want to talk I need a hug

thanks guys

eddytheb · #9 (**permalink**) 07-19-2007, 07:29 PM

I pulled the heads to find the block was never even decked $7000.00 for this motor any one got a barf bag

ENTDOC · #10 (**permalink**) 07-19-2007, 07:45 PM

that is too bad. we have some very reliable FE builders that support the forum, Gessford and Craft come to mind as top of the line builders with integrity that is beyond reproach. There are others I am sure.

Jac Mac · #11 (**permalink**) 07-19-2007, 08:24 PM

When something like this happens I cannot help wondering if perhaps the engine was shipped with the valve lash let off to prevent any foreign material etc entering the exhaust etc along with making life easy on the valve springs and the message has not been passed on. May not be the case, but I cant help wondering. Definitely not the way you want to start out though.

Jac Mac

lovehamr · #12 (**permalink**) 07-19-2007, 09:10 PM

After hearing Bill (Southern Automotive) speak at the LCS he's the first person I'd call!

Are you sure you didn't get that FE while on a canoe trip in north Georgia? Because it looks like the builder made someone squeal like a piggy! Man I'd be pissed to.

Steve

Excaliber · #13 (**permalink**) 07-19-2007, 09:11 PM

How can you tell the block has not been decked, thats a tough call without precision measuring.

My rockers look much like yours, but mine use spacers, not springs. Could be loose valve lash or springs for this application are incorrect. Valve train geometry (clearance of push rod in several areas of measurment for example) is often over looked. Proper clearance is 'assumed' rather than verified. Verification of ALL items on a motor is what makes one builder 'great' and another an 'also ran'.

$7000, while a lot of money, is cheap for an FE. I spent about $4000 on PARTS and machine shop work alone when I rebuilt mine, and that was for the SHORT BLOCK only (no heads, etc.)!

lineslinger · #14 (**permalink**) 07-19-2007, 09:50 PM

Just from looking at the pictures there seems to be a lot of "unusual" techniques at work.
The rocker arms appear to be Dove roller tip rockers.
Judging the gauge of spring wire used, the lack of shims in needed positions, along with the lack of spacers as well it does raise questions about the configuration, duh.
Are the lateral springs strong enough to hold their length or are they easy to compress? From what has occurred they don't appear to be doing their job.
There is a respectable amount of lateral pressure exerted during mid-high rpms. Thats why spools are used in a lot of set ups and not just springs.
In your last shot there does not appear to be any spacers or shims mounted on the shaft between the rocker and the shaft stand, which would allow the side wall of the aluminum rocker arm to rub directly against the steel shaft stand.
Its really hard to make an accurate judgment from looking at a few pictures and I don't want to appear anxious to dump on another guys work.
There do appear to be some unexplainable configurations.
See pic of a rocker shaft that uses "spools" or spacers.

CHANMADD · #15 (**permalink**) 07-19-2007, 10:18 PM

If the valve clearance is set right this should not happen even with springs.Bent valves and pushrods would maybe suggest that you experienced spring bind,like suggested above.What lift do you have on that cam?

CSX 4027 · #16 (**permalink**) 07-19-2007, 10:45 PM

I'm sure your builder said..."I've been building these for 30 years and this is the first time I've ever seen that"....
Typical rookie.
The only time that type of spring wire spring spacer is used is in a concour original with the original rockers.
You have no end stands either. Ask him why? And did he include a pair of high button shoes to drive with?
Yikes.
No decking?
How do you know?
Did you check and find uneven deck heights.
Who is this guy?
Where are you?

decooney · #17 (**permalink**) 07-19-2007, 11:06 PM

Bummer. Did your engine builder by chance run it in on an engine stand first before he sent it to you?

RICK LAKE · #18 (**permalink**) 07-20-2007, 03:54 AM

Ed You didnot say what cam and specs are in the motor. You should get a set of end supports for the rocker shafts and not use the stock ones. DSC sells the kits. The rocker shafts are weak where to bolts go through the assemblies and without the end supports you can crack and break off the shafts. I did this at R&G last year between the #7 and #8 cylinders. I would pull that cam and check for lobe damage, you may not see it with the cam inside of the motor. I would go back to the machinist and have a nice talk to him about this damage. Where any of the piston tops hit by valves? If so pull the motor and have it pulled apart and checked for other damage. A rod bearing could be flaten from hitting the valve, you said the valves where bent. A rod could be bent also. Sorry for giving you more bad info but you don't want to go through this twice. Rick L. If you are in NY there are a couple of other guys that do build FE motors. Rick Lake

CSX 4027 · #19 (**permalink**) 07-20-2007, 04:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RICK LAKE

Ed You didnot say what cam and specs are in the motor. ........................................If you are in NY there are a couple of other guys that do build FE motors. Rick Lake

Like us in Wayne NJ 201-213-2681
Come see and hear what a great one looks like, runs like and most of all, drives like. Our recent build is in a local customers car CSX 4783 who would be more than happy to play show and tell then do his best to glue a smile on you thru the gears.

eddytheb · #20 (**permalink**) 07-20-2007, 04:52 AM

The motor was picked the motor up he's only 20 minutes from me the valves were not left lose for shipping

For the question on how I know the block was not decked easy the finish is terrible and you can still see the old round ring from the old head gaskets the new gaskets he used were not round and leave a different shape on the block. Better yet I got out my trusty machined strait edge and feeler gauge set and in places I got up to 5 thousands. I reinstalled the rocker shafts and push rods after the intake was off and it toke no effort at all to slide the rockers sideways and send the push rods flying. The valves in question are damaged at the rocker end the push rod got jammed in a few real good when the rocker started to go sideways. Hell even one lifter popped its clip and blew apart, I have been at this for a long time with many engines under my belt just not allot of fords. This is one of those deals were you know what is wrong but you just need to hear it from some one else to be sure of your self.



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