FE gods tell me what the engine builder did to me here - Page 2

CSX 4027 · #21 (**permalink**) 07-20-2007, 05:14 AM

whatchagonnado next?

eddytheb · #22 (**permalink**) 07-20-2007, 05:25 AM

That's easy I got it all out and just going to do it my self like I should have in the first place. Looks like hell right now and I know were to go if I need any info. I will have a sit down with my customer and my lawyer and see what are next step is but for now it get the car done and done right.

CSX 4027 · #23 (**permalink**) 07-20-2007, 05:31 AM

You can sue and have good results if you have good honest understandable(to the judge) back-up of detail. Good luck..

RICK LAKE · #24 (**permalink**) 07-20-2007, 05:33 AM

Ed get lots of pictures and measurements if you are going to do any legal action. Rick L.

convincor · #25 (**permalink**) 07-20-2007, 05:57 AM

As others have said, solid spacers and end supports. I broke a shaft a couple weeks back with a Crane #343941. .533/.563.
I went with the Erson rollers from DSC- http://www.dscmotorsport.com/asp/Pro...asp?PartID=516

Clois Harlan · #26 (**permalink**) 07-20-2007, 06:27 AM

Eddy,

I had a complete melt down within 15 mins. of my brand new built 427 from a guy here that had a glowing repitation and history of building 427 engines. He had became so successful he let his young shop help do the work (tolerances set at .001). About a $3,000 additional cost at my old machinist here in Tulsa. Problems started when we were able to buy some std bore blocks from this guy from his inventory but he insisted on doing the machine work. Package deal (had it been right) was not cheap but fair In fact we let Mr. Kirk build two at once, mine and Dean Lampe's and they both cratered with in 10 mins of each other. I think he put over $20K in his pocket and we furnished most of the core parts (pistons, rods, rings, bearings, cam, etc.)

Law suit was not an option since we had broken them in on a Dyno and then were in our warm up laps at a local road course. Yea, we were pissed. His shop was in central OK. just in case anyone needed to know.

Clois

Excaliber · #27 (**permalink**) 07-20-2007, 10:35 AM

...somebody get a rope!

Barry_R · #28 (**permalink**) 07-20-2007, 03:04 PM

Can't speak to all the details - but that one was gonna come unglued pretty quick no matter what. The springs look like hardware store parts with some fender washers. Stock stuff ran for 100,000 miles in normal use, so you know there's an issue....

Also of note are the hardware store grade 5 bolts holding them on. Most of my "normal" stuff runs the Edelbrock/ARP stud kit, along with the Ersons. Swoopy ones get Blue Thunder heads and T&D rockers $$$.

I've been known to click a decent FE together from time to time...

wtm442 · #29 (**permalink**) 07-20-2007, 06:00 PM

Shall we call this the "Vaseline Thread"?

Sorry for that. Thankfully I've never had this problem.

May I suggest you contact my law firm, Smith & Wesson.

Take the bastard to small claims court, which usually has limits of $10K and you do not need a lawyer.

badrich · #30 (**permalink**) 07-20-2007, 06:32 PM

You're right, Barry, these machines shouldn't have any fasteners less than grade 8. Mine has ARPs in the critical areas. Cheap insurance. Rich

RICK LAKE · #31 (**permalink**) 07-23-2007, 05:47 AM

Barry R You can get the machine washers in .010-.050 at homedepot. Some come with grooves and some without depemds on the width. Rick

eddytheb · #32 (**permalink**) 07-24-2007, 05:43 AM

Well I got the old you didn't prime it and you over revved it excuse witch is not true I was also told you don't need the spacers the springs are fine and there not even available from comp cams. I primed the motor with my cordless drill with a mechanical drill on it and then again hooked up to the gauge on the dash. I started it and shut it down in less then a min looked it over and started it again to find oil poring out the cam plug in the back of the motor. So after pulling the trans bell clutch and flywheel I fixed the little leaky plug (no big deal happens to the best of us) I primed it again to make sure the plug was ok and not leaking and then decided to pull the valve cover off to see if I had oil on the top end and that's when I found all this.
I guy agreed to fix it and dyno it for my customer but gave me a hard time about the rocker shaft bolts spacers endcaps rod resizing and block decking. I told him I had to take the heads of to get this back in the car so I will know if he did what he was asked to do. I already have it in my head to make the improvements when I go to reinstall the motor. Our lawyer felt it best to give him the chance to make it right and if he was a reasonable person about it we were best to let him. I am not feeling all warm and fuzzy about it but it was my customers end call. I am sure this is far from over and I am sure I will be burdened with the task of cleaning up the mess. I was also told two weeks we waited over 8 months the last time so we will see. I have one more turn key cobra to do and that will be my last that one I will go with ford racing for the motor or do it totally myself.

Seaman · #33 (**permalink**) 07-24-2007, 07:30 AM

The oil hole in the rocker shaft should be on the bottom since the valve and pushrod are pushing up on the rocker and the lubrication needs to be at this point. Your photo shows the hole on the top. Basically you were running without oil and the rocker walked off the valve.

One other note: the rocker hold down bolts you have are not the original Ford products. The oiling bolt is special and you might also have a restriction there.

Dave

eddytheb · #34 (**permalink**) 07-24-2007, 07:33 AM

These shafts have holes on top and bottom

Jerry Clayton · #35 (**permalink**) 07-24-2007, 07:45 AM

Don't look like there's much oil up top---some of the rockers appear to have an offset--are they on the correct position? Do the pushrods show any signs of rubbing the manifold?
Altho I agree that the grade five bolts are inferior to what is needed, they aren't the reason the rockers went sideways
If the pushrods aren't rubbing , put it back together with solid spacers and some good bolts .

Jerry

Jerry Clayton · #36 (**permalink**) 07-24-2007, 07:47 AM

And addressing the lack of oil up top---are the cam bearings in correctly?

eddytheb · #37 (**permalink**) 07-24-2007, 08:43 AM

O yes bent the pushrods and put metal all over inside

Maricopa · #38 (**permalink**) 07-24-2007, 09:07 AM

I wouldn't give him the chance to re-do what he obviously doesn't know how to do. I'd get what $$s I could back and have a qualified FE guy re-build it.
Expensive? Yes, but compared to having it grenade on your customer a week after he takes possesion?

eddytheb · #39 (**permalink**) 07-24-2007, 05:24 PM

I have to pull the heads and put the motor in from the bottom so I will make sure things are the way I want and do what I have to to make it right. The cam bearings are in there right and I am sure there will be spacers in there this time.

Excaliber · #40 (**permalink**) 07-24-2007, 11:32 PM

What kind of replica do you have? I haven't heard of any that 'require' the motor be installed from the bottom or ones that 'require' you to pull the heads to install the engine.

Now I'll grant you that may be an interesting way to do it (from the bottom) and may well avoid the pitfall of 'dings' or 'scratches' installing from the top, but do you HAVE to do it that way?

I dropped my motor AND trans combo in my ERA with a cherry picker. Tight fit, oh so careful to not 'nick' anything, but it fit fine in there just fine.



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