First Time Spark Plug Removal

[rokndad]

Just bought the car and am attempting to change the plugs. Edelbrock KC 2 heads. It has about 1200 mi on the engine, and plugs are originals. I don't want to break them and it's pretty tough to get a torque wrench in the engine compartment to see what kind of torque I'm applying, but it's a lot and they're not coming out. Any suggestions?

[patrickt]

1200 miles on plugs with a CD system (MSD) are literally "brand new." Any particular reason you're pulling them?

[vettestr]

No need to replace unless you just want too but make sure engine is cold. Use a plug socket if possible and the better leverage the easier if that tight. Give her the old LEFTIE LOOSIE on a straight pull. Try other plugs to make sure all is well before going for broke on 1 hole.
I always insist on anti-seize on the plug threads and a bit on the gasket. On aluminum heads it is mandatory in my shop and always remove when cold or cool if possible.

[patrickt]

If you do get the plugs out you might want to think twice about the anti-seize. Most plug manufacturers recommend not using anti-seize (it's already built in to the plug). If you do use it, make sure you don't get any of the goo on the tip as it can cause mis-fires. Also, be mindful of the torque with anti-seize. At least one manufacturer advises lowering your torque value by 40% if you're using anti-seize. Spark plugs are not spinners, and this is one area where anti-seize can cause more problems than it prevents. On the other hand, always, always, always anti-seize your spinners. You know, if your engine is running fine, you might want to just leave the plugs alone and instead take the wheels off, eyeball everything, maybe lube the ball joints and tie-rods, and then anti-seize the spinners and safety wire them back on. The only way you'll be sure that there's anti-seize on your wheels is if you do it yourself -- and removing a wheel that didn't have anti-seize on it can be an absolute nightmare. Throw in an oil and filter change while you're at it too.

[Lowell W]

Patrick,

Great audio clip! FEs sound to automobile engines as Ducatis do to motorcycles.

I agree on the spinners: Absolutely use anti-seize and R&R 'em every now and then.

On sparkplugs...I've used some kind of anti-seize on every sparkplug I've installed for 20+ years and wouldn't be without it. I know some people say it affects the heat transfer from the plug to the head, but I think it's one of those issues where you'll find people equally committed to both sides of the debate. On an iron head, it may not be such a big deal, but I've seen aluminum threads come out of the head stuck to the sparkplug and just don't want to run the risk. I do agree about keeping it off the electrode and a little does go a long way. I brush on a small amount, then run it around the threads with my finger and wipe off the excess.

Lowell

[vettestr]

Patrickt,
Hey good morn Patrickt. I have never heard anyone say using antisieze on a plug can be harmful. I am not looking for a pissing contest but rather just your reasons and info source. I have inserts packaged with aluminum heads from high end manufacturers that insist on antisieze on plug threads or they will not honor a warranty claim for thread damage. The 2 different metal types and the heat cycles of a plug to head are the perfect scenario for galling of the threads. The aluminum expands at such a different rate than the steel body of the plug and add a little combustion residue on an exposed thread or tip and bingo. Caution should be used to apply only on the threads and not the tip or electrode as 02 Sensors do not like it.
This is from Champion with link provided. I read it to say they already applied antisieze. I went to several sites and the ones that said NOT to apply and listed the reason was = antisieze is a conductor and it will foul the plug. They also agreed with you and me that torque needs to be considered, well .. that makes sense.

Since aluminum and steel expand and contract at different rates, removing spark plugs from an aluminum cylinder head while hot can actually cause thread and cylinder head damage. Before installing the spark plugs, make sure the threads are clean and in good condition. If in doubt, run a thread chaser through the plug opening in the cylinder head. Champion recommends that you do not use an anti-seize compound, since one has already been applied to the plugs at the factory.

http://dodgeram.info/Engine-Gas/Spar...book.html#tips or http://grounds-mag.com/mag/grounds_m...ge_spark_plug/

[patrickt]

What's even funnier is that Champion makes an anti-seize for spark plugs but then recommends against using it. Here was Autolite's position on anti-seize:

"We do not recommend the use of any anti seize products for installing spark plugs. Anti seize compounds are typically composed of metallic, electrically conductive ingredients. If anti seize compounds come in contact with the core nose of the plugs, it can lead to a misfire condition. Anti seize compounds can also have a torque multiplying effect when installing plugs. This can lead to thread distortion and thread galling resulting in cylinder head damage. Autolite spark plugs are nickel plated to resist the effects of corrosion and seizing. However, plug seizure is aggravated further when steel plugs are installed into aluminum cylinder heads for a long period of time."

[vettestr]

YEA!! WHAT HE SAID!! Or is that what I said? Either way I insist on the use but do realize it should not be applied to the electrode and care must be taken when tightening the plug. I have turned wrenches from Top Fuel to weed whackers to install plugs without failure. The NO anti guys might say the same but the devil on my shoulder says it was because the manufacturer already installed it for them.
Push come to shove I would rather chance fouling a plug than galling it into a $$$ head. I have fixed many heads with inserts from guys who pulled the threads out of their heads for whatever reason. Most faults were over torque and or lack of a thread anti-seize but just my 2 cents. It is your Toy and choice so I respect whatever ya want to do on your toy

[rokndad]

Thanks gents. This all started because of timing and tune up goals. And because it's (the car) new to me, I wanted to see the condition of the plugs to examine what's happening in the cylinders as far as combustion goes. So, it's cold this morning and I'll go out and try again. With a little bigger lever. I am using a 5/8 spark plug socket with the rubber insert.

The axles have anti-seize on them. The spinner removal is next after I get my lift installed in the garage. Thanks for the suggestions. These forums are great.