The Value of a 1964 High-Rise 427?

[RodKnock]

I have a friend of a friend who has a complete 1964 high-rise 427 with a single quad intake manifold and a fresh intake manifold gasket and its been offered to me. Can someone tell me what the value of this engine would be? Thank you for your help.

[Excaliber]

I've seen the intake price range from a low of $900 to a high around $1,500. Of course you HAVE to run a high riser intake with high riser heads. This setup is very rare, expect to pay some big dollars for the heads, depending on condition of course.

If the DATE CODE is important then these are really cool heads/intake. If it's NOT important 'after market' intake and heads are available. Blue Thunder has a set of high riser heads that DO require some port work to match the high riser intake for 700-800 dollars. A modern high rise intake can also be had for much less dollars than a true date coded intake.

As for the motor, well it's worth whatever 427 center/top oilers are bringing these days. Plan on a complete rebuild and expect to spend 3 to 4 grand for parts alone. Considerably more if you have someone else rebuild it.

[RodKnock]

I'm told that it's a complete but disassembled engine with block, pistons, rods, crank, intake and heads, but maybe not oil pan, distributor and carb. I have to check that. Besides the T-bolt, what other cars had this engine installed from the factory or dealer? Should this kind of engine be installed into a Cobra that will see little, if any, racing duty?

[FFR428]

64 block would be a topoiler. Those are good blocks and pretty thick!! You'd have to see what crank and rods are. And what bore the block is at. General overview of condition etc....My guess some where in the $7000+ with steel crank, good rods and everything else in good shape.

Excal is the right guy to speaking to about the highriser. Check his engine blog.

[Excaliber]

Interesting question, which cars DID come from the factory with High Riser heads/intake, besides the T-Bolt. I should know this...

[FFR428]

T bolts, some lightweight Galaxies and some of the factory race cars (A/FX) are the only one's I know of that came with the HR. Were there not a few comp cars fitted with HR's?

[Excaliber]

"Rumor has it" some of the Comp cars may have been fitted with H.R. Always a challenge nailing down details when it comes to the original cars. Alloy heads were available on a very limited basis back then, you would think that would have been Shelbys first choice? No doubt some of the independants ran H.R. heads at some point.

[RodKnock]

Did they have steel cranks in 1964? I thought everything was cast steel or is that what was meant? Weren't they "just" high nickel stuff?

The parts are all fresh/new. The engine only needs assembly. I know the seller as an acquaintance through a friend of 25+ years (high school) and would trust that all the parts are in good shape.

Can you only run a solid cam (roller or flat tappet) in the HR 427? I was told that they do not have provisions for a hydraulic (roller or flat tappet) setup.

[1985 CCX]

Be careful, remember the block is 43 years old. Old castings are just that - OLD. Your hard earned money may be better spent on a new block which would offer better casting and possibly more reliable results. It would be a memorable bad day to fire it up after several thousand dollars to find it had an issue that was not detected.

[Excaliber]

It's misleading to call the MOTOR a 'high rise', it's a 427 that just happens to have a H.R. head and intake system on it. Could just as easily have a low riser or whatever. The date code on the BLOCK should be considered as a separate issue. Seems to me it was around 1968 or so before Ford introduced a 'hydraulic' lifter 427, so I would THINK 1964 would be 'solids' only? Don't know about the steel crank, but I suspect that also was a later 'side oiler' piece.

The stock pistons would likely be pretty high compression, 11 or 12 to 1. With those iron heads your asking for trouble, it gets old REAL FAST, trying to find 'race gas' and dealing with low octane fuel. I'd COUNT on having to buy new 'dished' pistons to reduce the C.R. to about 9.6 to 1. While there ARE 'off the shelf' ater market dished pistons available it is difficult to find the CORRECT ones for your specific application. You may want to budget for 'custom slugs'. If all the rest of the basic hardware is good I'd guess you will STILL spend $3K on additional parts to put it together.

It is some what controversial, the argument that these are really old parts and therefore 'not reliable'. I don't think it's that cut and dried. Age in and of itself does not mean there 'bad parts'. Heck NEW parts come with manufacturing defects, it is a risk no matter which way you go. If your really paranoid have the block sonic checked, decked, etc. Nothing wrong with it being 43 years old that can't be found out through close inspection.

[RodKnock]

I agree that old may or may not be better. I've personally seen brand new cast iron and aluminum blocks leak. Ultimately I may opt to buy a new crate engine, but this opportunity came up.

I'm told the new pistons will give the engine about a 10 or 10.25:1 CR. The block has been sonic tested and is defect free. I've entertained the thought about putting a 428 crank in it, buying some new rods and pistons, but I'm just exploring at this point.

The seller is asking $6,000 for everything, including pulleys, timing cover, distributor, etc.

[Tim Brewer]

Excaliber is right about just checking the engine carefully prior to building it. He is also right about lowering the CR. Go ahead and obtain that engine for your car, it's not a race engine by a long shot. A lot of guys have twice as much motor in their cars.

[What'saCobra?]

Remember that modern aly heads are tolerant of CR 10.+ ratios, with the best street gas, particularly if colder plugs are used.

The iron heads do not conduct the heat away from the chamber as quickly and therefore really don't want to see more than 9.5 or even less if the heads are not smooth surfaced.

Aly heads are available from several suppliers, complete, at very fair prices.

[FFR428]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Did they have steel cranks in 1964? I thought everything was cast steel or is that what was meant? Weren't they "just" high nickel stuff?


Can you only run a solid cam (roller or flat tappet) in the HR 427? I was told that they do not have provisions for a hydraulic (roller or flat tappet) setup.

Yes the 63 HR's used forged steel cranks (C3AE-6303-V) and capscrew rods in NASCAR. Later in 64 the "7000" rpm kits were available as over the counter items.


Right, the 64 block is a solid lifter only deal and best for flat tappets. Rollers will possibly be an issue. When I bought my Gen block from KC he did a partial restriction and recommends a little oil to the lifters for solids and solid rollers.

For $6k that's not a bad deal. Nothing wrong with old parts that have been magged and pressure tested.

[RodKnock]

How does the TP differ from the HR? Is the TP a better engine?

I would like to use a roller, but why will they be a problem?

I don't think the rods or crank in this HR 427 are anything special. Is it still worth $6,000? He did say that he was willing to negotiate...before it hits eBay.

[FFR428]

Well that's what you need to know.....about the cranks and rods etc... That would take away a little value if your looking at a iron crank and bolt and nut rods. Roller lifters like oil getting to them via the lifter galleys like hyd blocks have. You don't get that on a solid lifter block as the oil galley to the lifters is not even drilled. It was not till the 68 427 that the 427 blocks were drilled for hyd lifters. My old 406 was a solid lifter block and I wanted to use roller lifters. I was told it's not the best idea in a street engine by several people with way more experience with them. Being the lifters oil from splash in a solid lifter block there is not a whole lot of oil that gets to them at lower rpms. I've run flat tappets till the cows come home and have been very reliable for me. So I took the advice and stayed away from the rollers in the 406. I'm sure there are a few guys who have run rollers in a solid block. Maybe they will chime in with their experience.

Hard to comment on the TP vs HR engines. Each has their plus and downside. I think they are close with the HR having the edge. The TP heads and intake will fit under the hood tho. This is my first tunnelport so I don't have a whole lots of feedback yet.

[Excaliber]

FFR428, interesting that a '63 H.R. motor came with a steel crank. I guess the question would be is THIS motor an original "H.R." motor, thus possibly a steel crank, or just another top oiler block that got H.R. heads at some point in it's history.

My H.R. heads just BARELY fit under my hood scoop! The air filters actually stick through the hood and can be seen in the scoop, which is cool.

One of the questions I asked myself when I 'down sized' my motor (smaller cam, lower compression) was did I really need the high riser heads? Same question might apply to a tunnel port, all though a tunnel port just LOOKS so good, yeah, you NEED one! But both intakes will flow a LOT of air, if your not turning 6500 to 7000 rpm did you really need them?

[RodKnock]

Was a '64 HR 427 just a typical top-oiler with the high rise intake and heads? I've searched the internet for the proper casting numbers to verify, but no luck. I may go to the book store tomorrow to find a book or two on the subject.

[Excaliber]

Even the legendary SOHC 427 utilized a basically 'standard' 427 block, of course that was a side oiler block. Some slight modifications were done on the block to allow for oil drainage from the heads. But what really made it a "SOHC" were the heads themselves. Most side oilers came with steel cranks as standard, certainly the SOHC version did.

I'm sure you won't find any block numbers that would indicate it's status as an "H.R." block or what crank it may or may not have come with originally. It is what it is at this point, a top oiler block. Is it indeed a 1964 block (by the way)?

My buddy has an original 'date coded' 1965 side oiler block, the real deal, which I think is pretty cool. My block is a 'service block' from 1968. I've always thought his was just a little more 'real' than mine.

[RodKnock]

HI, I'm back. The following are the codes from the '64 HR 427:

Block : C3AE 6016-H
Heads: C3AE 6090 K
Manifold C4AE- 9425 G
Crank C3AE

The seller swears up and down that it's a 1964 high-rise engine and not a 1963. Can C3 mean 1964? I know 1963 parts still get sold in 1964, but aren't the C4 HR heads better than the C3 heads? Thank you.