How many out there road race a stroked FE?

ng8264723 · #1 (**permalink**) 10-20-2007, 08:15 PM

I referring to racing for fun on weekends etc. I know there fun to drive around town but how are they on a course? Are they too much to handle? Do they have too much torque?

Excaliber · #2 (**permalink**) 10-20-2007, 08:40 PM

I had mine on the track several times. How well it does is dependant on how well it's setup. I've got sticky tires and tall gears, which help a lot with throttle control.

lineslinger · #3 (**permalink**) 10-20-2007, 09:14 PM

Its not about the engine you have so much as your gearing, suspension, and driving ability, a small difference in engine weight is NOT the big deal.

ng8264723 · #4 (**permalink**) 10-20-2007, 09:22 PM

There us a oint where the car is over powered though. I want it to handle well. It's not all about straight line acceleration

lineslinger · #5 (**permalink**) 10-20-2007, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ng8264723

There us a oint where the car is over powered though. I want it to handle well. It's not all about straight line acceleration

Understood, but a well balanced automobile is the answer, the only time it is overpowered is when you don't control your right foot.

Jerry Clayton · #6 (**permalink**) 10-21-2007, 08:41 AM

If you want to road race an FE engine---take a 427 block and destroke it to
3.5 with a 352 crank---no matter how balanced or setup your car is--it is hard to control the torque of a monster when you are under 2-3 lateral Gs and a lot of forward acceration---your body just does not have the ability to process theinfo your car is feeding it so you can control your right foot.....

Jerry

Tom Kirkham · #7 (**permalink**) 10-21-2007, 10:02 AM

Morris (KMP259) is running with a stroked FE.

RICK LAKE · #8 (**permalink**) 10-21-2007, 10:51 AM

Jerry Clayton What are you smoken?

Care to share, no you need all you can get. Where you at Run&Gun? 352 stroker motor??

There is alot to learn about throttle control. This needs seat time. Power and Tork are your friend when you know how to drive. The only cobras pulling 2-3 g's are Morris's car and the other red cobra with the big rear wing. I just got my 482 motor together before going to R&G. with another 50-60hp and 70-80ft. of tork the only different was from getting from point "A" to point "B" quicker. The better drivers all can give feedback and by there ass's know what the car is doing. In the old days cobras had poor brakes and relyed on power sliding or drifting when racing. They saved the brakes for the end of the race. Today we have bigger and better braking systems, soft tires with greater grip, suspension parts that have 256 adjustments to shocks alone, varible spring rates. Power steering. Bottom line is a street car is fun to drive on a road course but not setup to race. Main thing is larger front springs. I went from 275s to over 400+pound springs with new QA1 shocks. I had no problem with my torque monster, I am going to the dyno this week, hoping for 550ft when done. I won the street autocross and ran time within 6 seconds from a pro car GPZ vette. This is on Pilot street tires with a 220 wear thread. KCR ran a 527 cobra 2 years ago with GY tires. He ran well. HP is not aways the answer to racing, fun or serious. Rick L. Ps side note my motor never turned over 5,000 rpm because of being new and a 6 spd trans. Motor was always in the torque power band.

ng8264723 · #9 (**permalink**) 10-21-2007, 10:55 AM

Morris (KMP259) is running with a stroked FE
Tom does he use the car as a cruiser or does he track it occasionally? What is your opinion on this since you defiantely race?

If you want to road race an FE engine---take a 427 block and destroke it to
3.5 with a 352 crank---no matter how balanced or setup your car is--it is hard to control the torque of a monster when you are under 2-3 lateral Gs and a lot of forward acceration---your body just does not have the ability to process theinfo your car is feeding it so you can control your right foot.....

Well I wouldn't want to destroke it but this kind of info does point me in the direction of running a standard crank.

Jerry Clayton · #10 (**permalink**) 10-21-2007, 11:34 AM

All right guys----I'll answer a few

I don't smoke, never have(well I did light one of my brothers cigs on time and threw out the match--the car was parked in a pile of leaves--my brother had the keys and was walking his girlfriend home) never lit up anything ever again-And no I wasn't at run and gun--hope to be there next year--our goal is to win all three events with one car/three drivers

Back in the heyday of the racing FE engines the hot set up was destroked to 396 inches in the intermediate fairlanes and comets torinos ask the Holmon-Moody guys

Rick what kind of times did you run on the road course? Were they near or under one minute?

As to Morris car---- altho it is beautifully done--- It is unnecessarily overkill and would be unraceable on anything but where you run one every month or two and run at an event where you unload the car, unload the easy chairs, wait for your track time, go out, come back , wipe off car, set down, repeat

I think Morris has a beautiful car, but it is about aas far from KISS as possible.

Now , take Scott Johnsons small block EM car -----

Rick----if I was going to roadrace a supercharged car it would have a small engine in it, probably not over 300 inches, but have a strong bottom end, and a fairly small cam---would also gear it to run between 5000-8000 rpm

Now--take John Spinas Buick powered EM---hasn't he done quite well down there also????

Don't need to smoke anything but the tires and brakes---hopefully we'll be there next year

Jerry

Jerry Clayton · #11 (**permalink**) 10-21-2007, 11:43 AM

Rick Lake---I think you misread my post about 352---I did not say to destroke it to 352, I said destroke a 427 with a 352 crank which would be 396 inches that they used in the racing FE Holmon-Moody engines in the mid/late 60s.
We have run 1.02s down there on the road course but there weren't any gt type corvettes around( with a go kart!!!!)But it did have Brembo brakes, full data collection,medium/hard tires and we could change apiston without draining the coolant or taking off the cyl head.

Jerry

CSX 4027 · #12 (**permalink**) 10-21-2007, 05:51 PM

Wasn't the Holman thing for NASCAR where they needed a high RPM tp maintain speed on an oval?
For road racing, get the lightest new tech gun drilled standard 3.78 and you will have fun and be competitive at over 7000 rpms
Turning more than that with MR/FE heads won't do all that much for power because, there won't be any...
The heads can't breathe well enough to make big RPM's worth turning.
If you want to turn 9500 and make power, put a cup motor in and dress it up like an FE.
I just happen to have one being finished for sale. It should make over 800hp and will turn the big RPM's you are looking for,

Jerry Clayton · #13 (**permalink**) 10-21-2007, 06:02 PM

Steve

The question was about road racing stroked 427 FE's, My reply was about going shorter on the stroke and referanced the HM 396 engines---actually I think they did it soo they could run less weight and save on brake wear at the bull ring tracks that needed lots of braking( Nascar had a lbs/Cid rule)

Morris · #14 (**permalink**) 10-21-2007, 07:34 PM

Yes we race a Stroked FE motor........

KMP 259 was the fastest Cobra at Run N Gun...... 106.9 Seconds

We are running mid GT-1 Times at Road America, Autobahn and Gateway in St Louis.....

I believe we were at least 1-1.5 seconds faster then any Cobra or Corvette down there.....

We need to change a few things over the winter and I'm sure we be even faster......

As far as a Cobra is concerned we wanted to do a car that had the old technology and update it.......

And Scott and Randy have had Chevy motors at Run n gun and when you get up on the oval .....the Shelby FE just motors away from them .....

We feel we are doing Great if we can be in mid pack on a GT-1 Grid ......

And having Raced and won GT-1 for many years ...... this has been a fun Challenge..... and expect it to be better next year ......

We would encourage anyone to come out to NASA and join us next year .... the times on the track don't lie.....and that's where KMP 259 does it's best.....

Morris

Jerry Clayton · #15 (**permalink**) 10-21-2007, 09:57 PM

And I'm sure you mean 1:06.9 !!!! Thats almost as quick as our 125cc kart at 1:02

Jerry

RICK LAKE · #16 (**permalink**) 10-22-2007, 06:28 AM

Jerry Clayton I go for the people and fun of the event. I try my hardest to run well in the autocross. If you read my thread, the motor is new and only breakin time, about 20 minutes. I run in the 1:20's on road course. and drive easy. The car is not setup for roadracing course. Autocross carry's no where the speed road racing does. I know my limits. Banging up a $60G+ car for a $20 dollar trophy is not the smartest thing one can do.

Last year a guy ran under 1:00.00 with a car that looked like a dirt track modified and a 3 rotor wankel motor. How can you compare your go kart at what wieght with you in it to a 2,900 lb cobra?

Morris also gave a couple of rides to the new owners of Gateway almost at speed. He was running in the 1:10's with the added wieght. John Spina, Great car he has, Have not seen him since Kit car show 5 years ago. John jr. and him did come to R&G 1 or 2 years. The car is a real good drag car. I hope they would return to R&G next week. JustA6 is the top of the 6 cylinder cars. Nascar motor with 600+hp runs low 10's in the 1/4 mile. This is without power adders. Bring the gokart, I will bring my bike. and see what times I can run. I don't see a problem with running about 1 minute on the bike. The super charger is off the new motor for now and has been for the last 3 years. Next year the TWM setup may get the call. I hope you come next year,see 1 car and 3 drivers? this has all the makens of a cooked car. It has been tryed before with bad outcomes. Side note on Morris car, have you seen it close up or just the pictures? The KISS principal on this car has been done to the max with safety and adjustments to any part of the car. You are also looking at a $200,000 dollar car. Steve also drives the wheel off this car on a roadcourse that is not a real road couse. The car can't be setup for both high speed banking and flat track turning.

I am looking forward to see you next year at R&G.

If you get a cobra body made for the gokart you can race that too in the 4-6 cylinder class

Rick L.

Jerry Clayton · #17 (**permalink**) 10-22-2007, 07:25 AM

Rick

I probably over responded to the smoke thing and several other things about stroked engines---But I have been around hi performance since well a long time and have worked with the Ford stuff since it was new---and after getting the cid up to 427, in 1967-68 area there was a big backlash about hi performance/4 speed cars and the insurance companies wouldn't even insure them---the factories started building lower hp auto trans boats/barges. The Ford engine becaqme the 7 litre 428, Mopar and GM did sort of the same.
Ford's racing at the shorter tracks ,where braking and acceration altho only left turns, used the destroked 427 blocks with the 3.5 crank(352) for 396 inches, a lower weight , save the brakes,and probably realisticly higher horsepower.

I have not seen Morris's car---I didn't get to go there when the WCCC did. I have seen most of the pictures of his build, and his work rivals the type of stuff I do. And it is only my opinion, but I believe in an effort to do it better, that he over did .

As for his performance, it has so much aero work done to it that it can't be compared to anything that isn't similar.

How does your car weigh 2900#, or was that a mis type?

We are looking forward to going to run and gun since it appears to be a true national gathering, and it is only 300 miles down there. We also plan on events at the other tracks that we.ve been to .

Hoping to meet you next year

Jerry

Jerry Clayton · #18 (**permalink**) 10-22-2007, 07:27 AM

Can we really run a kart in that class if it has a body on it????

RICK LAKE · #19 (**permalink**) 10-22-2007, 10:20 AM

Jerry Clayton Jerry everything is OK.

As far as the body on the gokart, check the safety sheet, you need safety gear and helmet. The car needs lights. I am not in charge but the idea is interesting.

I agree with the big bore short stroke motor for road racing and having a larger rpm and possible power range than a small bore long stroke motor is the way to go. For my driving and not like turning these strokers over 6,200 rpm, I stay with the big tork motor and have 1 extra gear to shift to. Morris car weight was about 2,900 lbs. My era is 2705lbs with all Aluminium motor and 1/2 tank of gas. I also have a power steering assist rack. I like you, have been very lucky to have seen the big motor,power days of the late 60's to early 70's. I miss owning a 69 Hemi roadrunner, but wrenched it for 2 years when racing with a friend. I turned down a 67 vette with tri 427 motor. Neighbor owned it and needed new brakes and calipers every year. He sold it before they came out with stainless cups. I tryed to talk a guy out of a superbird that is rotten away in the next town over. I ended up with the cobra instead of the bird. He will not sell it and the rear of the car is out in all the weather, what a waste. 383, auto, orange basic model. One day I will caught the wife, and with cash in hand save this car. I travel 998 miles from Jersey to this event, and the people and track people, Dan and Tim give us a great time and more track time than most can run. 300 miles is a 5 hour, 1 gas stop, Me 16 hours and 4 stops and 1 power nap

Hope you come next year.

Jerry Clayton · #20 (**permalink**) 10-22-2007, 10:29 AM

Rick

You would love seeing some of our works in progress here---I agree the folks that run that track have been some of the best to work with anywhere--Gateway is a nonstop for us--about 550 between fill ups on the powerstroke

Have a great day

Jerry



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