Lots of questions!

alpace@pacificp · #1 (**permalink**) 10-22-2007, 09:33 PM

Hello All,

First post here, so please bear with....

Have been researching replica Cobras for several months and am now closing in on my decision. I am looking at a CSX and a Kirkham 427 S/C. I will not be racing/tracking the car; Rather I intend to drive it in Northern California...stop and go traffic, etc. I want a car with a very smooth power band between idle and 4000 rpm such that the car is not lurching, etc. A car that remained somewhat 'cool' in stop and go traffic would be a real benefit. I would like to remain 'true' to form and strongly prefer a big block 427, with controllable, drivable horsepower and torque. Specifics for each car: CSX: 3.54 Rear End, Tremec 600 5-speed; Billboard tires. Kirkham: 3.42 rear end, Tremec 600 5 speed; Billboard tires. Currently considering engines from Roush and Keith Craft, both with Shelby blocks, etc.

Questions:

As my focus is on a very drivable car, I am most interested in the smooth power band. How might I achieve this?

Most FE engines appear to be blown out to 550-630hp. My research shows the original 427 at 385 to 425 hp. Is such a thing even available?

Given the rear differentials, are there particular engines, clutches, etc. some might recommend in order to meet my goals?

Cam Suggestions?

Other suggestions?

Preferences between Kirkhams (beautiful) and CSX (presumably Shelby authenticity?).

Thanks all. After driving Spitfires, MG, TR4A and TR-^'s for much of my life, I am looking forward to a American/Brit Cobra!

al

Stentor · #2 (**permalink**) 10-22-2007, 10:04 PM

Al,

Welcome to the forum. It looks like you have done some homework and narrowed your decision down to two great options--CSX 4000 and Kirkham.

I would suggest you give Keith Craft and Roush a call and talk with them about what you have in mind. Then you can make a determination on how well each might be able to meet your specific needs.

I suspect Keith Craft is going to have more flexibility in terms of the type of FE engine he will build (e.g., heads, compression, cam). I believe Roush only offers a few different FE configurations/options at this time (all based on the Shelby block). My understanding is that Keith Craft has built some more mild FEs for customers.

I have a CSX car with the 3.54 rear end and TKO-600 (w/.82 overdrive), and it is very good on the street. Incidentally, with the CSX car (and probably for the Kirkham, for that matter) it will be key to get the suspension and alignment "dialed in" by somebody who knows what they are doing (this will make a world of difference in how the car rides and handles). A lot of people have had good luck with Tom's Motorsports in Vegas for this.

Good luck.

alpace@pacificp · #3 (**permalink**) 10-22-2007, 10:09 PM

Stentor,

Thanks for the prompt response! I am trading emails with Keith Craft as we speak! Hard working group...9pm here in CA and midnight out his way....

Interesting observations between Roush and Craft as to configuration, etc. Likewise for tuning. I will contact Tom's Motorsports to discuss as well!

Are you pleased with your CSX?

al

Power Surge · #4 (**permalink**) 10-22-2007, 10:43 PM

I put a mild 390 in my CSX. I bought the motor from an engine builder off ebay for $3300 shipped to my door. It's a 400-425hp motor. It has been flawless in performance, and reliability. It runs plenty cool, much cooler than any other Cobra I've driven with. As for looks, my 390 is visually more "correct" than most any other Cobra out there

.

If you're not looking for crazy hp and you want a nice reliable motor, I'd go the 390 route.

jdog · #5 (**permalink**) 10-22-2007, 10:45 PM

Hello al, welcome. You won't go wrong with either car. They're both well made, but the Shelby comes with some additional 'baggage'!

Do yourself a favor and look to your left and click on the FE Specialties link. They'er right here in NorCal, & Tom has a very good reputation.

Think about how far away those other guy's are, and ask yourself, "what if".

jdog
P.S. Check my photo gallery to see some of Tom's handywork.

alpace@pacificp · #6 (**permalink**) 10-22-2007, 10:54 PM

Sal,
What a solid suggestion! I took a look at some 390's on the web and the cost is considerably less, etc. I am going to speak with KC and Roush about the suggestion tomorrow.

Thanks again. The assistance on this site is just fantastic.

al

alpace@pacificp · #7 (**permalink**) 10-22-2007, 11:12 PM

Jdog,

I checked out their site and you are right. I might give Tom a call over the next couple of days....

Might you share what you meant by 'additional baggage'?

Thanks!

al

eschaider · #8 (**permalink**) 10-22-2007, 11:33 PM

Al,

While I don't use an FE foundation for my power I have used big blocks for many years in both street and race form. As you begin to close in on your final specs you might explore a big block stroker. The long arm and additional inches give very smooth low speed and part throttle response and a stunning kick in the pants when you stand on the loud pedal. Best of all you get all these good manners and mild compression, and mild camshaft and reliable starts under virtually all conditions in a real fun car to drive.

As to the final selection of manufacturer both of your picks produce very good cars. If I could have afforded it I would have purchased a Kirkham. Stunning falls considerably short of the mark when looking for the proper modifier to describe a Kirkham. Like you I originally wanted to buy a Shelby continuation car. When I tried a couple years ago my attempts to get the Shelby operation to sell one were unsuccessful. I understand now that you can purchase a car in a fairly straight forward manner.

The Kirkhams' cars are truly works of engineering art and the Kirkhams are great people. To finish the car the way I wanted it would have financially strained my Cobra budget. In the end I built a Superformance. Love the car! Something to think about though, - a Kirkham is like the first girl you ever fell for. You will always remember her and some how you can never get her out of your mind. And by the way if you get married to her (at least in this case) you'll be real happy.

I'm sure the last part of this post has done you no good whatsoever but, - think hard on the stroker they are magic.

Ed

<edit> p.s. Welcome to the club!

Stentor · #9 (**permalink**) 10-23-2007, 02:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alpace@pacificp

Stentor,

Thanks for the prompt response! I am trading emails with Keith Craft as we speak! Hard working group...9pm here in CA and midnight out his way....

Interesting observations between Roush and Craft as to configuration, etc. Likewise for tuning. I will contact Tom's Motorsports to discuss as well!

Are you pleased with your CSX?

al

al,

I just sent you a private message.

Regards,

Stentor

RICK LAKE · #10 (**permalink**) 10-23-2007, 06:35 AM

Alpace you have private mail RickL.

427SnakeSC · #11 (**permalink**) 10-23-2007, 06:41 AM

Hi Al, welcome to the forum! Sent you a PM.

Murphy · #12 (**permalink**) 10-23-2007, 07:32 AM

Al, you picked the A1 suppliers so I am sure you will be happy. I went Kirkham and Keith Craft and would do it again. Go look at one of each, then decide. A suggestion for drivability is to add a fuel injection system to your FE. My car starts like a new car when it is hot or cold. Runs smooth and idles great.

Al, a caution however, if you buy a csx continuation you may develop a common affliction know as ADPCO* Syndrome like some others who post here.

*Auto defensive pretend like the car is an original syndrome.

sideoiler10 · #13 (**permalink**) 10-23-2007, 08:25 AM

Don't make the mistake a lot of Cobra builders have made by thinking that the 400 to 500 hp 427s are not streetable. They are quite streetable. No they don't lurch in traffic unless you want them to. I have spoken with many guys who after completing their builds and driving for a few months, with they had went with more hp. With all the low-end torque these motors have they are generally very streetable.

I would suggest you find a few locals or somewhat nearby guys that might take you for a test drive, or at least let you ride in their car to get an idea of what they are actually like before you decide.

Maybe go to one of the larger Cobra shows or track events and drive a dealer demo with a 400 to 500 hp engine. My '66 427 sideoiler is a little under 600 at the flywheel and it is very streetable. Of course, I like the shake and roll from the rough idle at the stop lights. You just have to be more careful when and if you nail it. Be sure there is lots of room to the front and on both sides of you. It is amazing how quickly we humans get used to things that were at first scary and threatening.

Sounds like you are gonna have a great car with either the CSK or Kirkhan. I wish I could afford one or the other...but alas. Take care and good luck. Bob

ENTDOC · #14 (**permalink**) 10-23-2007, 09:06 AM

with a Kirkham or CSX car I would highly advise the use of a 427SO and not a 390. A 428 would be my next choice and do a street version of the car.

jdog · #15 (**permalink**) 10-23-2007, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy

Al, a caution however, if you buy a csx continuation you may develop a common affliction know as ADPCO* Syndrome like some others who post here.

*Auto defensive pretend like the car is an original syndrome.

The CSX number brings on comments like this!

The Extra Baggage is 'CSX envy'!

jdog

Murphy · #16 (**permalink**) 10-23-2007, 10:55 AM

Just as I thought.

RodKnock · #17 (**permalink**) 10-23-2007, 11:24 AM

Whether you buy a CSX or Kirkham, both excellent choices, I would agree with "ENTDOC". As a former buyer in the market for a resale CSX 'GLASS or Kirkham, I had a preference for cars that were built close or closer to the originals. The installation of a 427 is recommended (and expensive), but on the other hand, there aren't too many people that can tell the difference between a 390, 427 or 428.

I remember searching this site for other people's opinions on the CSX 'GLASS versus Kirkham question. It's was/is a difficult decision, since they're both great cars both with wonderful owners, but ultimately it's your pocketbook that gets the final vote. Best of luck with the decision.

Don McCain · #18 (**permalink**) 10-23-2007, 01:58 PM

Al,
Give me a call and I will quote you on a period correct aluminum FE that will make 500 HP and be very streetable and easy to drive. If you go with the CSX a Shelby engine would be the icing on the cake.
Don McCain
Carroll Shelby Engines
310-538-2914

alpace@pacificp · #19 (**permalink**) 10-23-2007, 08:46 PM

Ed,

I forwarded your email to both Kirkham and to Keith Craft (hope you do not mind!), I thought Kirkham would appreciate your comments re their quality, etc (they did!). As to the big block stroker, your description, etc. was very helpful and it is my hope that KC and Roush will review your thoughts and confirm your suggestions.

I love both the Kirkham and the CSX......and I do have a new, existing CSX chassis on hold. Either car can be delivered by the end of December, early January. On that count, I think I am good....if I can finalize my power plant!

Thanks again!

al

alpace@pacificp · #20 (**permalink**) 10-23-2007, 08:51 PM

Hilarious! Did not know realize what a competitive bunch we have in the cobra arena! Notwithstanding, I have to say I have seen some pretty terrific non-CSX, non-Kirkhams out there....and they look awesome. I may be a bit of an untrained eye (not really, dad was a tool and die craftsman for 50 years), but I have to say there is a lot of cobra talent out there. Seems to me the world is wide open in terms of interpretation of this classic. Heck, with so few made, who knows what the 66 427 would have really evolved into if CS and Ford did not stop production! So, Superformance, ERA, CSK, Kirkham...hats off to all....as I see it we have a great bunch of enthusiasts. That is a good thing. A real good thing.

Exiting my pious lectern.

al

al



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